Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Welcome listeners to the GenShift Podcast. I'm Dr. Katherine Jeffery, a generational strategist, and this podcast, GenShift, is where generational intelligence meets real life for leaders, managers, and anyone trying to work better across the generations.

Today's conversation is all about Gen X. Gen X was born between 1965 and 1980, and is sometimes referred to as the sandwich generation. This is the current generation of people who are simultaneously supporting aging parents and raising or parenting their own children. This generation is holding a lot, and most of them are not talking about it.

So with us today we have the amazing couple, Tom and Suzi Findlay, who lead Ascent Living Communities out in Colorado, and they work daily with families who are navigating elder care decisions. They are Gen Xers themselves, and this topic is not only personal, but it's also professional. So Tom and Suzi, I want to welcome you to GenShift, and you two are sitting right at the intersection of family leadership and elder care every single day.

So I'm really glad you're here, and I think you're gonna bring some really important insights to some major struggles that a lot of Gen Xers are feeling right now. So why don't you two just tell us a little bit about how you came into this field? How'd you get started in this? 

Susie Finley: Sure. I'll take the lead, thank you, and we're so excited to be here and back visiting with you as well.

I am one of those unique individuals where I've been in senior living my entire career, so for 28 years this year. I majored in gerontology. And so I spent my senior year of college interning at an assisted living, and I loved it. I knew that's what I wanted to do, and I was really fortunate.

I was hired by a private owner out of college, worked my way up under him to become a nursing home administrator, and then moved to Colorado in 2001 and spent 10 years with a large publicly traded company, and left there in 2013 to join Tom so that we could grow Ascent together. 

Tom Finley: Awesome. Yeah. Thanks, Katherine.

Appreciate you having us on. Happy to jump in here and share my story. I started my career in accounting and finance, and I worked for a publicly traded REIT for a number of years that was developing and owned industrial real estate, and had the opportunity to go work for a more local group in Denver that was building different types of housing.

One of those types of housing they were building was senior living. I only worked there for about 16 months but I was there long enough to see that when a new senior living community opened- I really saw three things happen. First of all, we saw that the seniors themselves were well taken care of.

My grandparents were alive at the time and I really connected to that in thinking about them as I saw this happen. The second thing I saw happen was the adult children could really put their head on their pillow at night knowing that mom and dad were taken care of.

And that created a lot of peace for the overall family. Third thing I saw is senior living community creates a lot of jobs, and I thought about the economic impact and the benefit that created to the overall community. Contrasted that to my experience with the industrial REIT.

And when a new warehouse opens, it's great, but it doesn't have the same level of impact that a senior living community have and can bring to a community when it opens. So when I saw those things happen really got excited about the industry, learned to love it, and then started this company in 2008.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Awesome. So you really were seeking out greater purpose from where you had first started it sounds like. 

Tom Finley: Yeah, it was an interesting business opportunity I thought. I love the complexity because like I always say, we move in one resident into our senior living communities we get potentially up to four, adult children and in-laws.

We get grandchildren. We get great-grandchildren sometimes. You get the whole family. So it really does have that overall sort of compounding impact, and that's really on the resident side. Then you've got the employee side where we have employees and we have employees of all generations, all ages ranging even down to our children who are in high school and work at the communities.

So it's a people business. It really is. You can get scared about what might AI come and touch. This is not a business that's going to be fully disrupted and interrupted or canceled out because of AI.

It'll be improved, I believe, because of it. Yeah. We will always be a people-intensive business. So it's a feel-good business for sure. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yes. And from spending time with you, you're both highly relational. And so there's so many relational dynamics that you have to consider as you do this, for your career, right?

Susie Finley: Yeah, I think it's really been interesting for me. As of two years ago, can say that I have taken care of three generations of a family because I took care of the grandmother who moved into a community I opened in 2007. Now the adult children who placed their mother with me are my residents at another community- Wow

that moved in two years ago. Yeah. And their daughter works for me at a second community going on now four years. And so it's so interesting. Being in this for 28 years, in the beginning it was always my friends calling me about their grandparents. And now it's... Really, it's a mix. Every single week a friend calls about their parent and needing advice, guidance and resources.

But what we're also getting every single week, especially now that school is getting out, is that all of our friends want their kids to be servers at our community. Which is a great, it's a great opportunity. My son starts his shift at 4:00 today. And it's a great opportunity, but we're really being pulled in both of those directions now from two totally different generations.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yes. I love that. So you have to build bridges in every direction, right? Yeah. 'Cause you're dealing with every generation 

Tom Finley: all the time.

We are, Kathrine. We're dealing with generations. If you think about the residents in our communities, by and large right now the residents in our communities are the silent generation.

Yep. Have been for many years. We're just starting to see the baby boomers enter into our communities. Average age to move in our communities is about 82. Okay. The oldest boomers turn 80 this year. Yeah. And there are 18 years of boomers. So if you think about this span we're working with here, we got 20 years of boomers that we're gonna be working with in the senior living business, and they're a big group.

So when you talk about building bridges, Susie and I are active. We work with Metro State University, a large university here in the Denver area. Every year their intro to hospitality class, they bring them to one of our communities. We take them through because really, we want them to see that senior living has a huge overlap with hospitality because we need workers.

Yeah. We need staff. Yeah. We need frontline workers. We need management team members, and this is a massive opportunity from an employment standpoint that we just think younger people need to know about. And so yeah, we're building bridges. We're taking that all the way down to the Gen Alphas like Susie mentioned working in our communities the high school kids.

So yeah it's going down pretty far.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah. And the other thing I hear as you two are talking is that your culture is really strong.

And I certainly sensed that when I was with you all. The fact that generations from every angle want to be part of what you're doing speaks very loudly of how you're doing it.

Before we get into the substance, let's do a quick lightning round. Short answers, no explaining, just whatever pops into your head, okay?

In one word, what does it feel like to be a Gen Xer right now?

Tom Finley: Control.

Susie Finley: Stretched. Pulled.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yep. Okay, so having traditionalist or older Boomer parents or Gen Z kids, which is harder to navigate?

Susie Finley: Kids. 

Tom Finley: Yeah, we're both probably gonna say kids 'cause we have five of them combined that's a central theme in our life right now, for sure. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: And they're kinda teenagers, right? 

Susie Finley: Oh except one's now 20, but we still have teenagers. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: So yeah. Okay. Yeah, that always makes life more interesting.

Susie Finley: And then the one who's almost a teenager and 12 is basically 12 going on 20, so yeah. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah. What is the one thing Gen X does well in this season of life that nobody gives them credit for?

Susie Finley: Work ethic. Grit . 

Tom Finley: Grit, yeah. I think we're doers. I'm gonna go back to some of the conversations we've had, Katherine, where, we grew up in this era where, we were the latchkey kids. You come home from school, you're there alone till mom and dad get home.

You're on your own. You make your own snacks, and you figure it out. I'm not so sure that our younger generations now are pulling it off, or at least not to the extent that we were. I always see these social media memes popping up that say the Gen Xers are still acting like 30, but we've been acting like 30 since we were 10.

That's right. So I think that's but there's some truth to it too. 

Susie Finley: And Tom would also tell you that he likes the meme of his wife and her helicopter because I am the queen of the helicopter moms. And Tom was not allowing my kids to do all the things that we did when we came home from school by ourselves and made our own snacks.

And nobody knew where we were 'cause there was no Life, 360. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: That's right. That's right, and now we know exactly where everyone is, yeah. 

Tom Finley: At all times. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: It's very different. All right, next one. What do most families wait too long to do when it comes to aging parents? 

Susie Finley: Plan. 

Tom Finley: Yeah. I always say that if you have the opportunity to move into senior living community, move in at the independent living stage.

Really, if you do that's the resident making that choice. Because... and I've told so many of my friends this. I feel like the best gift a parent can give their children is to move into independent living. The kids know that mom and dad are taken care of. If you wait too long, and there's a health event, then the children are forced to do all this research, try to make the best decision they can while juggling everything else going on in life, and then they'll move in not necessarily in an independent living stage, but more of assisted living stage, which is fine, but they'll miss out on a lot of the really fun things that independent living residents get to do and the relationships they get to form the friendships they make the fun activities and outings they get to do.

That's not as accessible at an assisted living stage as it is an independent living stage. So I think that, like Susie said planning ahead and taking control and making those decisions on your own it's not only gonna benefit you, it's gonna benefit, your kids, your grandkids.

And so I really feel like looking into this stuff while you're still healthy physically, mentally, all of those things combined, making that decision and really going in and enjoying it. And that's really what it's, the, what it should be about. 

Susie Finley: Tom, you're not good at these one word answers.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Oh, was that supposed to be one word? I'm sorry. 

We're still in the lightning round, but it was a great answer. Oh, whoops. Okay. You're doing great. All right. Finish this sentence: Gen X was raised to handle everything alone, and that is both their strength and their ... 

Tom Finley: Superpower.

Susie Finley: Strength and their

Let me find the right word. Superpower is a good one, for sure. I'll go with the same. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Good. I agree. It's one of the greatest assets our generation brings. Yeah. Okay, final lightning round question and then, you're free reign, Tom.

What has working in senior living changed about how you think about your own family?

Susie Finley: So I'll take the lead on this one and then Tom can jump in. I would say that certainly, like the example that Tom just gave in talking about planning ahead, my dad turned 80 this year, and he lives across the country, and I hope he listens to this. And just like in every other podcast, I'll say that he lives in a three story home.

His bedroom's upstairs, his laundry room's in the basement, and he still golfs, he still drives, he has grandkids in Colorado. What better time to move than to wait until an event happens? My father is a decade different than Tom's dad, which is really interesting just based- Yeah

on when they started their families. Yeah. And Tom and I unfortunately both lost our mothers at a very young age. His was 59 and mine was 62. And so for me, when I see these families and the struggles and the challenges and all the things that they're trying to plan and spending time together, I really, I understand the importance of it because we both lost that with our moms- Yeah

which would've been so great for us to be able to have. We're never gonna be able to do that for them, and we have our dads and we can do that for them. But that's really something that I've seen from a senior living perspective that draws on my heartstrings. Yeah. 

Tom Finley: My thing is just gonna be quite different.

I think being in and around seniors and senior living communities, weekly for a very long time I pay attention to those who have aged what I'll consider to be well. And, we were at one of our communities this morning, and as soon as we walk in at 8:30, one of the residents had come to the building, checked in, and she's going out on a walk.

She's taking care of herself. And then, an hour and a half later we see her husband, and he was out exercising too. I think taking control of your health and doing so at as young of an age as you can I try to do this and we do workout exercises.

We're very active with our kids. My 12-year-old loves to go and do workouts and body weight workouts, things like that. Not pumping weight, but just staying active and staying healthy. And I think, taking care of your body, is the best thing you can do, and there's really not an age where it's too late.

Even later in life, moving into a community, start taking those exercise classes, doing those things that will make your heart healthier, your mind healthier, all those things. It's never too late to start those because once an event happens or disease sets in it becomes much harder to turn back the clock on those events. So I think being around and observing, some of these residents, and there's, one in particular that comes to mind. One of my favorite residents lives in one of our communities, and she's 92 years old, and she is on a women's softball team.

Love her. I love- That's amazing. It is nothing short- Shortstop ... of amazing. She plays shortstop for the team. And she's such an inspiration. She plays for the Colorado Peaches and she's part of their over 80 women's softball group. So- ... I just love seeing that and she a couple years ago, she, when she was 90, she ran in the the Huntsman Senior Olympic Games, and she was going to run the the 60 meter dash.

And I said "Are you ready?" I saw her one day. She just got off the elevator. I said, "Are you ready for the Olympics?" And she said, "Yeah, I'm ready," and she sprinted and took off running across the lobby. And I'm like, "Oh my gosh, don't fall down." But she was showing me she was ready, and she was great.

And there were, I don't know, eight people in the race, and she came in third place. And she was the oldest by far. Watching the residents and the seniors who do these things and they're taking care of themselves. They're working out. They're making healthy choices in the dining room, those type of things. That has really had an an impact on me and I'm trying to pass that along to the kids too.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah. So to think well about how you're living in the moment because it's gonna impact what your future looks like. 

Tom Finley: That's right. It's all cumulative. It builds up. And you know what? I also believe that if you haven't made the best decisions, start doing whatever you can whenever you can because I do think our bodies can turn back the clock too.

And that they're open to that. It's never too late to take control or take as much control as you can because otherwise, you might end up in a spot where things aren't in your control. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah. Yeah, our bodies are pretty resilient when we give them what they need.

Amazingly. 

Tom Finley: Yeah. Amazingly. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Before I go to the next kind of round of questions, there's something you said earlier, and Susie feel free to comment on this too. I don't know that you said this directly, but if you're moving into senior living don't dread it.

It should be something you look forward to. 

Tom Finley: We see this happen, all the time. These residents are leaving their home. A lot of times they've been in the same home, they raised their kids, and they've been in this home for 50, 60 years. They can't imagine the thought of leaving the home.

And sometimes they come in without the best attitude. But come back in, in 60, 90 days. The same residents that were fighting and resisting that urge to move in, you see them two, three months in after they've moved in and this happens 90% of the time.

The response is, "Why didn't I do this earlier? Why didn't I make this move earlier?" "If I knew how easy"- ... my life could be and without having to deal with this house." Yes, the house has the memories. It's so comfortable. It's familiar. But it also comes with a lot of work and a lot of expense.

And in walking away from that, has a lot of power. And you move in, and suddenly you're around, a hundred other people your age and most of them you don't know, but most of them you have some connection with. You start to get to do some fun things. You're meeting lots of friends and you don't have to do laundry anymore.

You don't have to cook anymore, and you don't have to worry about all these things that were previously, a burden, and now they're just taken care of. I think that's something that I really wish more people would ask about.

Because if you ask, you might find that the answer's going to be very different than what you believe it might be. 

Susie Finley: Yeah. And I think just piggybacking on that, so often will have the adult daughter come to us and say, Mom's sitting in her apartment and she's not doing anything."

And years ago, that was a conversation that was really frequent. And now today what's really great is that with our social media presence, which is a huge part of what we do it because we're marketing to potential employees. We do it for our residents. We are doing it for the adult daughter as well.

Yeah. Because when Mom says, "I sat in my apartment all day," now her adult daughter can say, "Really, Mom? Because I saw you at the Rockies game and then happy hour on Facebook today at the community." And you're always going to the person you know you can get to the most is gonna be your son or daughter, and that's who you're going to pull on their heartstrings.

But the reality is that these residents just dive into socialization and make friends, as Tom said, and it's so good for them once they can immerse themselves into the community in whichever way that they're gonna be comfortable. So lots of options. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah, and that sense of community and that human need to just belong to something- Yeah

right? And sometimes, to your point, as we age, we become more isolated, and it's very difficult to feel like we matter or that we're bringing relevance to the world. And so this just adds all that dimension to life. 

Tom Finley: It does, Katherine. And not only is it difficult. I believe it's very dangerous.

We were at a senior living conference within the last six months. One of the speakers at one of the sessions we had attended likened social isolation for our seniors to the equivalent of smoking 15 cigarettes a day.

It's that dangerous, and that's bad for your health because, we're social beings. We always are. We always have been. And even if you're not the biggest social butterfly, just being around people it's... it... we need that. It fills our cup. It fills our soul. Yeah. I believe the isolation is a big deal, and it's something that we do very well just by nature of how we're set up.

You're around other people your age. You're around the staff who a lot of times are, several generations younger than you. 

Susie Finley: Yes.

Tom Finley: They have stories too. Yeah. We hire for people with big hearts, and they love to have these conversations.

A lot of them grew up in multigenerational homes, and so they're very comfortable being around older generations, and they have a lot to share, and so it can be a really beautiful thing, for sure. 

Susie Finley: And we also see so many couples in our senior living communities, especially in independent living and typically, when there's a couple, one is caring in some sort of fashion for the other.

And so having- Yeah ... that group of friends and that socialization just helps that caregiver with support so much that they're not doing it alone, that what they're dealing with and experiencing their friends may be dealing with, and it really, it makes for such a nice community. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: So yeah, how often does that happen, where there is a couple, and one of them needs more assistance than the other?

Is the other person a little more hesitant to enter, or do they feel relief?

Susie Finley: It is a rarity that two that a couple both would be like, " We're ready to go. Let's do this." Yeah. It is always one digging in their heels. It is always one that's had some sort of a change of some sort, whether it's can't drive anymore, can't shovel snow anymore. Whatever the change may be, it's very rarely. No one's aging at the same pace. Couples aren't aging at the same pace. And so it's usually one is in a much different mindset than the other. But once they move in, usually both of them can get there in their own way. But it's a process, for sure.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah. As is everything, right? Yeah, Yeah. So what are some of the early signs that families tend to miss, and what should they actually be watching for? 

Susie Finley: I would say early signs would be lots and lots of frozen meals, bad nutrition, weight loss, absolutely. That could be dentures not fitting, or my meat is now so tough.

Your meat hasn't changed, but your dentures may not be fitting. Yeah. Cleanliness, hygiene at home would be really big factors. We always see after big holidays, so Thanksgiving, Christmas, families get together, they haven't seen each other in six months, eight months, or a year. And then our calls come in that Monday or that weekend because the adult children get together with their parents and it's what has happened and what has changed?

Typically it's a gradual process. If it's something that is happening very fast, it could be more of an acute episode that's treatable, like some sort of infection. But those are a lot of the signs that things are not going the way they should, and that having some supported living environment could really make them more successful.

Tom Finley: Those are all great answers. I'm going to add a few things. Just regular communication. If you're across the country, phone calls and this is proven as we age there's going to be some level of dementia that starts, in our brains.

And but if you have start having the same conversations over and over again, that's going to be some sort of a red flag. And then when you're there, yeah, go to the garage. Look at the car. Does the car have new scratches, new bumps on it? New dents or whatever.

Just see, how is that going? The car is the last thing that our residents wanna let go of, and it's a big part of their independence. But if you start seeing that they're backing into, things at the grocery store or whatever, like that's a signal that you should be looking for to maybe say, "Hey, these senior living communities there's transportation there and they'll take you all over the place." "You don't have to do that anymore." So- Yeah ... just another one to take a look at. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah, that's really good. And what is the biggest mistake people make when they try to bring this up with their traditionalist or probably an older boomer parent?

Susie Finley: I would say them not giving their parent the respect of the fact that they can still make these choices and decisions. And so pushing it too much on them, I think it's good for the adult children to do their homework and to do their investigation and to see what's out there, but involving their parent as much as possible is only going to help with the pre-move in process as well as the how am I going to adapt once I get there.

And so I think that would be a huge mistake that people often make.

We let the resident to pick their floor plan and to pick their furniture, and what are they gonna bring, what are they not gonna bring, and really to be in the driver's seat as much as possible.

Tom Finley: And I think for the seniors or for our residents, like if it can be ultimately their choice and they're the ones that have the final say, like that makes such a better process, and it may take a long time. Live in a metro area, there's probably gonna be multiple senior living options.

They're gonna have friends at some of these communities. Go visit. Go with them on the tours. Go with them to visit. See what you like, see what you don't like. Pick two or three and go knock them all out in one day and, help them do a SWOT analysis on this thing.

What did... what do you like? What do you not like? What did this one have that the other one didn't have that you like? Really help them make a really informed decision, ' cause then you get that great buy-in. Once the decision's made, everybody feels so good about it.

You should feel good about it. And I think taking the time you might have to take off work or fly across the country or whatever and carve out some days to do that, but those would be a really important days to spend with your parent to, to help make those decisions.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: What if you as the adult child, you're like this needs to happen", like you know it, but you have a parent doesn't even wanna talk about it. What do you suggest in those moments? 

Susie Finley: I've had a thousand of those conversations, mostly professionally and also personally, and I'll go back to and say to whose ever parents it is, echoing what Tom just said, you want to be in the driver's seat.

You want to be the one making these decisions. You don't want an event to happen, I get a call, you're in the hospital, you are getting rehabbed, and I'm going and making all these decisions for you, and then you're suddenly moving into an apartment you've never seen before and I have to set it up for you.

That's really what you want to avoid having happen. 

Tom Finley: Here's another scenario that we see happen, and it's a tough one, where you've got a couple. One has an issue, whether it's physical or cognitive. The other spouse is the caregiver, right? And they're doing okay.

They're making it at home. 

Susie Finley: Two halves make a whole is what we say, right? Two 

Tom Finley: halves make a whole. That's right. Then what we see is that caregiver spouse is working so hard, something happens to them and they go down hard and fast, and then suddenly everything's exposed. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Everything.

Tom Finley: That, that is the more dangerous one, and I feel we are like, oh my gosh, Dad's so healthy, he can help Mom with her issues, and all of a sudden he's literally worked himself, into a bad situation and something happens to him.

Now all the help Mom was getting from Dad is no longer there. Dad needs help. Now we're in a crisis situation. That happens more than people think and that really can create a downward spiral pretty quickly, unfortunately.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: I know this probably varies where you live, but like typical wait time.

So how far in advance would you suggest that people start thinking about this? 

Tom Finley: We've had an interesting cycle within senior living where during the COVID years, which were horribly bad you know the operations of the business became very tough.

Valuations of senior living properties dropped significantly and the construction costs at the same time rose very quickly. And we're now in a, in a drought period where it has not made financial sense to be able to build new communities.

Interesting. And so we have a very low number of new supply coming on. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: And you've got this huge generation of boomers. 

Tom Finley: That's right. That's right. 

For so many years, until... I'm talking about very recently, within the last six to nine months the cost per unit to build these things you could go buy one for half that because the construction costs have risen, so significantly. And now interest rates are up, and they're just they're very hard to pencil- Yeah ... right now. So we've got no new supply coming on. You've got a huge demographic wave coming that's going to be a large consumer of senior living, and you've got the same supply you've had for the last five years. It hasn't really grown. So it almost doesn't matter which market you're in, whether that's, Denver or Charlotte, or Los Angeles, whatever. Across the country, we're dealing with supply constraints.

We see this all the time, the couples, they want to move in, they want to have the big two bedroom. Guess what? There is no two bedrooms to be had. So I was in one of our communities last week and one of the couples was nice enough to show us their two bedroom.

We had a visitor in from out of town. All the two bedrooms were full, and we said how long have you been in this apartment?" They said, "We've been here for two or three months, but we moved into a one bedroom in order to jump to the top of the wait list to get to the two bedroom. So you have to make these sort of decisions.

But if you're thinking that you want to stay at home and then wait for that perfect apartment it's probably not gonna show up for many years. Because, the moment the new construction feasibility makes sense again guess what there? You got a long timeline there too because, given what it takes to get design and approvals to build a new building, that takes two years.

It takes two more years to build it. So if we were to start today to build a brand new community, it wouldn't be open until 2030. So this is a problem we're gonna be dealing with for many years. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Huge. It's huge. 

Tom Finley: Huge problem, and these boomers are gonna keep on coming, and we're not gonna be catching up until the 2030s.

So unfortunately, I'd say start early and be prepared to make some sacrifices. Move into that less desirable apartment, in order to jump to the top of the wait list to get that one apartment- to get- ... that you really do want, because you're gonna have to make some sacrifices to get there.

And so it's just the state of the business where it is right now, and it's not gonna be solved anytime soon. 

Susie Finley: Great point. I would say, Tom and I will always say to people, nobody wakes up on a Saturday morning and says, "Let's go look at senior living just in case we ever need it." And so I'm not suggesting that people do that, but planning ahead and knowing what's out there and getting on waiting lists is going to help in all of those areas that Tom talked about because the inventory is so low. Memory care is usually a very immediate, urgent need. Yeah. And that inventory is the most compressed of all that we have.

Independent living is a much longer sales cycle. But again, as Tom said, the inventory of two bedrooms and larger apartments, which are typically the most desirable, are very challenging to get. And so- Yeah ... really just looking at all of those different options and planning ahead as much as possible.

Having those conversations, they're not always fun to have, but it is, as Tom said earlier, the biggest gift you can give is having those plans in place.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: For sure.

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Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Are you guys just in Colorado? 

Susie Finley: Right now our communities are all in Colorado. We have six of them. Okay. About 750 units, and then we are actively looking at Mountain West and Great Plains and expanding outside of Colorado.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Excellent. I think if you all can grow your culture in this kind of space wow, it's a gift to everybody.

Tom Finley: And you hear this from people, and I don't know that I fully believed it until I got really deep into this business, but if you have a great culture and you have great teams and you train them well and you treat them well, everything else falls into place.

That's right. And so I appreciate you bringing that up because it's huge I think competitive advantage for any company that can have a strong workforce that believes in management, that knows they're gonna do the right thing, that treats them well.

If you can create that culture and have that be alive and well within all your employees, everything else will fall into place. Yep. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: And then you not only are doing that for your staff your people that work for you, but then all the people that are bringing their parents to you, right?

That's so important because they want them. They're their loved ones, right? They want them to be cared for well. When you walk into your spaces, you really feel that. 

Tom Finley: Yeah. It's interesting. This morning was in one of the communities and my own grandmother, she was at this community in 2018, and one of the caregivers walks up and gives me a hug, gives Susie a hug and she's been there since we opened that community in 2017.

That's the type of stuff. If you're going to look at communities- ask how long the staff have been there. That's a great question to ask, yes. Do you have staff that have been here a long time, or are they all brand new? If it's a brand new community, they're all gonna be new.

But see if they've got that longevity. Man, that's a great question to ask and try to find out. It, it may be hard to quantify it may be hard to find those, but you're gonna ask around and find 'em and that will tell you a lot right there.

People have been there a long time, they've got the little plaque on their desk, the five-year awards- Yeah, those type of things. I mean- 

Susie Finley: Yeah.

Tom Finley: That stuff matters because it's a high turnover business. It's tough, but if you can find those communities where they do have longevity they do have great staff, that's where the rubber meets the road, for sure.

Susie Finley: Yeah. And I will just add and say that I spent 15 years as an executive director of my 28, and when you walk into a community you can feel the culture. And, yes, you can ask for their retention and turnover rates. You can ask them how they measure culture and satisfaction.

You can ask all those questions, and they're gonna give you whatever answers that they want. But you can feel culture. You can see it in people's faces and how they're interacting, and that is a good measure right there when you're looking at communities. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yes. Yes, I fully agree with that. Okay, so let's flip to the other side of the Gen X sandwich, because this isn't only about aging parents, but many Gen X adults are also parenting Gen Z kids who are still at home, still figuring out their footing, or dealing with their own mental health challenges, right?

And you all have five, so although you have one that's now 20. So how does that layer complicate things both practically and emotionally?

Susie Finley: As it relates to work, or are we talking just personal at this point? 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Either one, actually. Just how having teenagers in the home, raising them while also doing what you do. You're both obviously very busy. You're spinning a lot of plates in the air. And so how does that make your life more fun, shall we say?

Susie Finley: And our kids, now they're older. We've got two out of five that drive. We're about to have four out of five that drive by the end of the year. And people always ask us, "How do you have your business and have five kids?" Yeah. And my joke is always we want to see how much capability the Outlook calendar has.

Because literally our dog's heartworm medicine to, the kids anything and everything they have, it's all on the calendar, and we live off of it. But we're people too, and so we are, trying to run a company and be good role models and good mentors to our teams, and there's times that we're going through stuff with our kids.

And I'll speak from experience. My 20-year-old, who comes home from college on Sunday, his high school years were very challenging years. All of the things you just talked about, we lived through all of those challenges. And so there was certainly Mondays when we would be in our home office team meetings, and I'm trying to lead and interact and be professional, that I'm dealing with personal stuff at home, and we always say, " Leave your personal stuff at home."

It's much easier said than done. Yeah. And we all are humans, and we're trying to deal with life. And so it's a balance for sure. For sure. 

Tom Finley: Yes. Yeah. My oldest graduates from high school in a week, and we're preparing for his graduating from high school big dinner.

We're gonna surprise him with a video that's gonna have, couple hundred pictures of him growing up. And so I've been through those pictures for the last several days, getting prepared for the slideshow, and my goodness, it's hard to believe. People always say, "The kids grow up so fast," but man, is that true.

And then he's gonna be off to college this fall. And so it's starting to hit home pretty quick. He wanted to go out of state, and so that's what he's gonna do. But just seeing him and having him around all the time, those days are numbered.

But and I think it's gonna be maybe hardest on the parents but as they spread their little wings and start to fly but it is also very exciting at the same time. We're a couple years into this new era where the little baby birds are flying out of the nest, and then they'll come back on holidays, and we get to-

to see them and be around them and catch up, and then they get to see things changing in our lives and get all excited about it. Watching these kids, watching them succeed and have success, taking a lot of pride in that, and that. There's been a lot of hard times, a lot of hard days, a lot of hard nights.

But they're coming through it, and they're winning in the ways that's important to them, their wins. And sometimes they're little wins, and sometimes, man, sometimes they're really big wins. But just being there and being that cheerleader for them instead of being the doer, we're being the watcher. That's been really cool to see and experience. But I've still got my little guy. He gets mad when I call him that. He's 12 and a half, and I said, I don't care. You're always gonna be my little guy."

We still got some years left, but I think as they continue to kinda move on out of the house the house is getting a little quieter every fall when we lose two. The next three are finishing their freshman year and their sixth grade year, so we've got these three are gonna be around for a while.

But yeah, it's a new world having them go off to college. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah, and it's interesting as a Gen X-er for you to say you're switching from being a doer to a watcher. That's a tough thing for a Gen X-er to do.

Tom Finley: It is. It is because, I view the X-ers right now, we've been behind this big Boomer generation, and they're moving on.

Speaking personally, I turn 50 here in a couple months, and so I really feel the X-ers are here. We've been working hard. We're at the point in our careers where, we got, the next 10 years we're gonna be, calling the shots.

We're gonna be doing a lot professionally personally, for this country. It's our time, and we got a huge generation ahead of us and a huge generation behind us, so it may not last all that long, or as long as it did for the Boomers.

Think about, the Boomers. We've had Boomer presidents since Bill Clinton. They've been in office the highest office for a very long time. And now we've got the X-ers that are stepping up and hitting that point and it feels good.

But at the same time, that's on the professional side. On the personal side seeing the kids head off to school, tough for sure. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yep. 

Susie Finley: The other piece of that, talking about personal like we just did, is that we have so many of these, Zs who are working for us, and Alphas, and, they're working for us.

And these, some of these kids, they finish high school, and their parents are like, "Okay, you're out. You're on your own." And we're watching these kids- Working as servers, let's say, for just over minimum wage full time in our communities, living off that income. And so part of our other personal side of it is- supporting them as best we can as an employer, and then also making sure we're raising good humans because as business owners, our kids have not had those struggles. And so- Yeah really trying to make sure that we're being responsible in how we're raising our kids, and that they're going out into the world to be responsible.

And we see so many different sides of it in our industry in having 600 employees. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: I love that. So caring for people at all ages. All ages. All ages. It's a big responsibility, and you two feel both of that. That certainly reflects in how you do things. Most people who are, walking through this stage in life are also tend to be fully employed, as you two are, and some are even in leadership roles, right?

And like Susie, you even gave this example, like you're taking calls from doctors between back to back meetings, right? And you're not telling anybody why you're doing it. You're just carrying this with you. So what does this season of life actually cost someone professionally, and what do most people not know about the different resources that might be available to them?

Susie Finley: Oh, that's a hard one. And then, the other layer is you have to put in what percentage of families are, divorced households and, they may be remarried with stepparents, they may be single parents doing it on their own, and so that's a whole nother level of complexity trying to be a professional in the workforce if you're doing it on your own.

And it's a hard balance. I think that there's hopefully, companies out there have resources for their employees. We try to be a resource at large companies when, their employees' parents then need senior living. And so that's a great way for us to be there at the crisis time that we know- people wait for. Even for me, as, a business owner here with Tom, as the mother, as the female, as Tom will say, I take on more than I need to, part of my helicopter mom personality. But, I definitely feel pulled and my son who's about to drive in August do I love doing carpool? No. Does it pull me away from work? Yes. But I literally counted yesterday, I have eight more days of carpool forever, and I'm like, you know what? That windshield time with him, like- Yeah ... I'm never gonna get that back.

I love that because I can hear about things that he would never tell me about once we get home. Yeah. So it's a balance for sure, and I think that employers, especially post-pandemic, have had to be flexible in new and different ways. And it's harder for us when we're in a 24/7, 365 business.

Yeah. Even when there's a huge snow storm in Colorado and they tell people to stay home, we can't do that- Yeah ... for who we care for. But employers have definitely become more flexible with, hybrid schedules, working from home, having flexibility, split shifts. There's so many different ways- Yeah

you can look at how you can support your people who are being pulled in different directions. 

Tom Finley: Yeah. And I'll just add to this. I feel like as a society, seek out some friends of yours who've got kids maybe a little bit older, and I feel like if you let your guard down a little bit and say, "Hey, I'm struggling with this as a parent with my kid, he's a, freshman in high school," whatever, "Is this normal?"

It might be pretty normal, yeah. Wasn't normal, when we were in high school in 1991, but today in 2026 it is normal. So I feel letting your guard down a little bit, being a little vulnerable, just seeking out some people who've done this before.

I feel like people are pretty willing to share perspective and not be too overbearing with it. And so I think if you just double check these things and be like, "Hey, is this okay?" The kids are saying these things and they're using this terminology and I don't understand it-

Just talk to some people and I think you'll find that your kids probably aren't too far off. And maybe you'll feel a little bit better. So doesn't always have to be, like, a professional help. It can be a friendly help- 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah.

Tom Finley: That you reach out to just to double check that things are going okay. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah. That you're actually doing okay. Yeah. 

Tom Finley: Yeah. 

Susie Finley: Except when I sent a three paragraph text message to my son today with lots of punctuation and flourished. I know that was wrong in every way shape and form, but I had to get a message across. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: You had to do it. 

That's awesome. Okay, here's a... I think this question's really important. So sibling conflict is often common in these kind of situations, I would think, when people are entering into senior living. What causes it and how do families get ahead of it before it becomes a huge crisis?

Susie Finley: Oh, man. And I'm gonna use my same example I did on your previous question, which is- Sibling conflict, and then you have the step-sibling conflict- ... where I care about my mom, but I don't care about my stepdad. And so it is so many cooks in the kitchen. And so having the conversations ahead on who's the financial decision maker, who's the medical decision maker, being in agreement, respecting your parent on what their wishes are, and having those in writing, professionally done in, legal forms from elder law attorneys. That is so important because everybody has different motivations, and everyone has different opinions. And again, I'm gonna go back to, when I lost my mom at 62, it was unexpected. There was nothing planned. And so my brother, who I get along with great we both were in a high stress situation. And so every emotion was coming out. I wanted to be in control. He wanted to be in control. Decisions being made. That is not what you want to have happen. And so all that planning ahead, especially in families where there's, stepparents and step-siblings, is so very important.

Tom Finley: Yeah. Yeah, I'll add to that. This is a simple one to do. There's a health power of attorney, and there's a financial power of attorney, and they don't have to be the same person. And if there's multiple children involved, you're probably gonna have one that's maybe a little more in tune with one of each of those.

You know split those duties up. Let one of the children be, the health POA, help you make those decisions from a health perspective. The other child can be the financial POA help figure out the financial picture and what all needs to happen, routing monies from here, there, wherever, getting monies wherever.

Passing the hat to the other siblings, "Hey, we're at a shortfall. We need to all come up with X number of dollars per month to help Mom and Dad continue, supporting themselves," whatever the case may be. I think splitting up those roles and doing so at a time when things are not in a crisis situation, like Susie said.

It's not difficult to do. I think it's just from a navigational standpoint it may be difficult to have those conversations. But I think getting out in front of that and and having those and making those decisions early would be a great thing to do for your family.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Excellent. Susie, I think my mom's the same age as yours, or she's about to turn 80, and, you think about walking through these conversations. 'Cause I lost my dad when he was 44. Mm-hmm. And you wanna do the right thing, you wanna do it at the right time, and so all these things are really helpful. It's getting me thinking about how to even have conversations or what types of conversations we need to have. And I have two siblings as well. I think we'll all navigate it well together.

Susie Finley: It's always better to do all of those conversations and the navigation and in not a crisis, high stress situation, yeah. Sitting around on a Sunday morning drinking coffee casually those are the best times to never know what you can accomplish then. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah, when that extra layer of stress and tension isn't sitting on top of you. Changing everything. Yeah. Yeah. So if someone's actually in the thick of this right now and feels like they're failing, what do you want them to know?

Susie Finley: That there are resources out there, and there are so many people of all different roles that fall into this puzzle that they're looking at that can help and guide them and give them those resources. Just don't try to do it on your own, and don't try to navigate it. There's so much information, and there are a lot of resources that are out there.

Yeah. 

Tom Finley: Yeah, I'd say, just be sensible about it. You're not gonna know every answer right away. Start... Like Susie said, start reaching out. Start asking questions. Reach out to professionals, people who have done this. That's one thing. We in senior living, we don't know everything. We know where to go to ask. And having that sort of person who can help guide you along that process or people. but you gotta start asking the questions because, like Susie mentioned earlier, no one wakes up one day and says, "Gosh, I really want to go learn about senior living," and I think if we're all, leading with our heart and using our brain to, to make those best decisions, we're gonna, we're gonna make, we're gonna make... Most of them are gonna be good. We're gonna look back and say I probably could have done that differently."

But if we're real sensible about it, we'll end up making the right decisions and we'll do the best we can with the resources we have available to us at that time. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: And what are some of the other resources? You mentioned the power of attorney. What else would you recommend?

Maybe there's a checklist somewhere, of steps I need to take. How do you respond to that? 

Susie Finley: I would say, as Tom said earlier, it's very likely that if you check in with two or three friends- half of them are going to have parents that have been or are in this situation, and so looking to them for guidance. Certainly, there's professionals out there that can provide support. Our sales and marketing teams in our communities are amazing at just walking people through this path and, helping them and helping them navigate and helping them know what to ask, and filling in the blanks for them and helping them to make good decisions.

We have people that come in all the time that of course are in crisis mode, or they come in and they're like, "I don't know if my mom needs independent living or assisted living or where to even start and how this all works." And so there's so many professionals out there. Your own physicians can be really good resources and help give you guidance as well.

So all of the professionals in your life, there's so many different ways to turn your financial planners, your physicians, your attorneys. There's guidance. You just need to ask for help. 

Tom Finley: Yeah. I'm going to go back to that Sunday morning over a cup of coffee or several cups of coffee conversation.

And Silent Generation is just absolutely known for this. There's a box in the house that's got all the important documents.

And then, there's a crisis and they're like the kids know what color the box is, they just don't know what's in there. Have that conversation "What's in the box?

Is there a long-term care policy? Is there a life insurance policy? What's out there? The financial planner, how do we get in touch with them? Is there a will in place?" They're probably in place, but if they're not talked about, how is the adult child supposed to know what to do whenever, something happens?

So I think sitting down and having that conversation, mapping everything out, showing them where they are. Passwords, another huge one. Have the passwords written down. How do I get into this account? What do I do? This goes back to that power of attorney. If you're splitting these things up, the financial power of attorney has the passwords to all the bank accounts, all the brokerage accounts. The health POA has all the passwords to the doctor's portals, and can get in touch with the doctor and have those conversations. So you know, just not getting caught off guard. They're not comfortable conversations to have.

Have them every now and again, and then you go off and you have a great day. Just knowing what's there, because having a benefit or a resource or a long-term care policy available that these families have paid into for 30 years. We're talking about a lot of money.

And then to not be able to use it 'cause nobody knows it's there that would be such a devastating thing to have happen. Yes. 

Susie Finley: I was gonna add two things. One is I can't wait to get off of this podcast to be able to ask my husband where all of his passwords are, 'cause I'm sure he has them all in a really good spot.

He knows exactly what I'm talking about. The other conversation and planning that is a huge piece and a huge gift to your adult children is end of life and burial and funeral planning. Being able to go and make those plans and do that for your loved ones, that, talk about a stressful time.

That takes so much stress off. And all of the funeral homes have people who do just pre-planning, and they're so good at having those hard conversations. But it is a gift when that can be done, and you can spend your time supporting someone through end of life, mourning and grieving and doing all of that, and not having to go and make all of those other decisions.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah. And they're trained in having these conversations. Absolutely ... , they're really good at, they take some of that heavy lifting off, I think. Yeah. And then last question really is what do families who navigate this well do differently from families who do not do it so well?

Tom Finley: I think the answer's simple. It's communicate. 

Susie Finley: There we go. We just, we've just been talking about this. Yeah. And it's really just having those conversation. And no one wants to talk about end of life conversations at all. It's it's such a scary thing, especially, as we get older.

But think about the storm that you can leave behind if you don't have those conversations or if there's a handwritten will, which is legal in a lot of states, but it's just so ambiguous and then you end up with... and I've seen this happen, you leave behind siblings that are fighting with one another for, I'm talking about a decade, about these things.

It just, it takes just a little bit more effort and a little bit more time and attention to get these things done right. It's never perfect, but it can be so much better with the communication and the proper planning. And that, I think that's so important.

So important. Yep. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah. It really is. I feel it. I'm like, "Oh, yeah, I need to talk about that and that and-

Tom Finley: I'm watching your wheels turn, Katherine. We're talking right to you. We're talking to you.  

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: So some key takeaways, from our conversation: Don't wait for a crisis. The conversation you keep putting off is less damaging than what follows if you don't actually have it.

We also talked about knowing the signs, right? Changes in hygiene, eating, driving, finances, and even that social isolation are all signals that we need to take seriously. And then lead with what you've observed, not with what you conclude, because specific observations open conversations, but conclusions, if I come in and say, "This is what I think," that kind of closes the door.

And then build a care team before you need one. Distribute the load and put it in writing so that everybody's clear. And so then in those tense moments, you've already got it figured out, and you don't have to add more stress to what you're already experiencing. 

Susie Finley: I was gonna say, we keep talking about the gift that the seniors can give to their adult children with all of these things, but the other piece is that the gift that the adult children can give to their parent is not sitting and arguing about Mom and Dad when they're going through struggles and strains. Yes.

Because they feel that, too. Yes. They want you to come in and join them for dinner and happy hour and meet their friends, not be in there fighting in a care conference about decisions that are getting made. Yes. That is not good for anyone, especially the senior. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah, and because they're already going through such a big transition, and then when they see their own kids, like, all fired up that makes it 

Susie Finley: even- They, they feel it.

Yeah. They feel it.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah. And then I would add apply your generational intelligence, right? So understand who traditionalists are if your parent's an older Boomer, right? What are their generational defaults? And then understand your own Gen X wiring and how this changes the dynamics, right?

Because we're all coming at this from slightly different perspectives. Yeah. And so some things we can all do right now if we find ourselves in this stage is have one honest conversation with sibling, spouse, or close friend about what you're actually carrying.

And so they can help us normalize some of this, and even give us wisdom and resources. And then confirm if your parent has a durable power of attorney, a healthcare proxy, and an advanced directive. If not, make that a next step. And then I love this one, right? Start with a simple document that has your parent's key contacts, accounts, medications, all those things so everybody's aware.

And then sometimes your employer has an employee assistance program, right? With elder care resources. Before you even need them you can be aware that they're actually there.

So Tom and Suzie, I just wanna thank you. What you do at Ascent Living Communities every day really matters, and this conversation is one that a lot of Gen Xers needed to hear, but they probably won't actually admit that.

Kind of like me as my wheels are turning as you're both talking, right? I'm like, "Oh, yeah, I really need to think about these things." And so here's what I want to leave you with. Gen X was built to handle hard things quietly, and that is a gift. But this season with aging parents and kids still finding their footing, the career, the everything, this is too much to carry alone in silence, and you don't get a medal for doing it without help.

You just get exhausted. So share this episode with another Gen Xer you know who's in the middle of this. They probably won't ask for your help on their own, but this might be the nudge that they need. So if this episode was useful, leave a review. It helps more people find the show. I'm Dr. Kathrine Jeffery.

This is GenShift, where generational intelligence meets real life. Take care of yourselves out there.