Kiki Kouris: Millennials try to connect and ensure employees feel heard, valued, and that they feel like they have a purpose in what they're doing. Because you don't ever want people to feel just like cogs in a wheel. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Welcome to GenShift. This is part of our series HR through the eyes of each generation. Today, we're centering on the Millennials. Millennials entered the workforce during rapid technological change, the great recession and the rise of the values driven workplace. Many were shaped by uncertainty, student debt, social movements, and a strong emphasis on things that had meaning and were developmental.

This timing shaped how they actually approach HR. And as a reminder, this conversation is about understanding how Millennials practice HR. It's not about defending the function today. We get to spend some time getting to know our very inspirational millennial guest, Kiki. Kiki, tell us a little bit about yourself. What your work journey has been like in HR and what kind of experience you're bringing to today's episode.

Kiki Kouris: Great. Katherine, thanks for having me. My name's Kiki. I am an Associate Director of HR. I'm based in Chicago, Illinois. That's where this accent's from. My journey to HR was a bit unconventional. When I went to college, I studied forensic science 'cause I thought I wanted to be in the FBI, I wanted to be able to help people and I thought that was gonna be an amazing career journey for me.

And when I graduated college, my yaya, so my grandmother was sick with Alzheimer's and I ended up being her caregiver with my grandfather. And this was in 2010, 2011 timeframe. When it was difficult to find jobs at the time. And when my grandmother, my yaya had passed away, really the only thing that was open for someone that had a career gap after college was like office management type roles.

So I fell into roles in office management and then I became an executive assistant. And I was approached by a headhunter for a position. And I had really loved the company that I was working in, so I didn't really wanna go to this interview ' cause I was like, the company that I worked for was great.

All of my friends worked there. I was in an executive assistant position. It wasn't necessarily like what I had thought my career was gonna be, but it was fine. Like it was an interesting job. And the company did a lot of community engagement work, which like I loved about that organization. So I was always doing stuff on the weekends with them helping in the community. And I really enjoyed that part of it. So I was like, I don't really wanna leave this company. They're great. Like my friends work here. And my brother-in-law was like, just go to the interview. It's gonna be good experience for you 'cause even you don't interview that often, blah, blah, blah.

And so I went to the interview and I had told the headhunter that I wasn't gonna take off any time for work. That if they wanted to meet with me, they'd have to meet with me before work. So I met with them super early in the morning and I ended up falling in love with the two people that interviewed me and I was like, ah, shucks, like I have to take this job opportunity.

And it was working as an executive assistant for the Chief Human Resource Officer and the Chief Legal Officer. And it was for the company that I'm currently at. And they were going through a divestiture. And so I started working on a lot of like different projects and I started working a lot with the HR team.

And after a couple months working there, someone had approached me and they said we have a role within HR we think you're a natural fit. And I was like, ah, man. Like all of my friends hate their HR people. And I never thought about it as a career because in the past I hadn't had a wonderful experience with HR, but my friends were always like, oh man, they always complain. It's like the one function everybody complains about, aside from, oh, my computer never works like it related complaints. HR always takes the brunt of it. And so I ended up giving it a chance and I loved it and it was the best decision I ever made for my career.

It's been such a natural fit. For me, and I think it's provided a lot of value and purpose for what I'm doing. And so I've moved around into a lot of different roles within HR. And I try to be not very black and white in my approach with HR because I think we live in the gray.

And I think that helps me be a better business partner for the employees because I think it helps them feel very comfortable and to build up a lot of the trust that I think that they're looking for a need in someone within HR and that like I would want in my HR person.

I've been in HR for about 10 years now. It's been wild. It's a really challenging field to be in every day is different. You're solving a lot of problems. So although I didn't become in the FBI and solve crimes, I solve people things like every day.

And luckily I'm not solving crimes at work. But it's been a really fun job and challenging and and it makes me feel really good when the employees will say man, you're the best HR person that like I've ever had in my career. And it's been really nice to have like positive sentiment from the employees and see employees careers grow and develop.

I think that's the part of the job that I love the most is seeing someone that you hire get promoted and move through the ranks and you think back to that first initial conversation you had when you were recruiting them and I feel like that's the beauty of it.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: And so you really feel like you're able to make a difference, which perhaps you didn't feel that way before you actually entered HR.

Kiki Kouris: Yeah. It 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: sounds like you were like, no, HR isn't gonna help people. But then you learned that it does. Where did that shift take place for you? Do you remember? 

Kiki Kouris: I think working initially with the HR team and I've been fortunate to see HR in a few organizations now, and I think that the mentors that I have within the organization that I work with now and the mentors that I've had throughout my career have been really strong transparent HR professionals.

To be a good HR professional, you need to make sure that you're balancing obviously the best intentions for the organization. But I think truly great HR professionals balance it with the best intentions for the employees as well. And they don't lose sight to the employee part. And I've had the great fortune of having really good mentors who always care about the people and ensure that despite what's happening in the world, and we've gone through, I've had a really good sense of mentorship of people that never lose sight of the fact that we're all human and everybody's dealing with the certain situations within the company from a human perspective. They don't lose that lens.

We're humans and we live in the gray. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah, that's really well said. Okay, so before we really jump in, I wanna do a lightning round with you. 

Kiki Kouris: Okay.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Alright. One word for what it's like to work in HR right now. 

Kiki Kouris: Tiring. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: You went into HR because? 

Kiki Kouris: I wanted to change. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: The hardest part of being in HR is?

Kiki Kouris: Taking on the emotions of the employees. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: HR does its best work when?

Kiki Kouris: They're well rested. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery:  The employees. 

Kiki Kouris: Yeah. 

Yeah. Both 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Or you? 

Kiki Kouris: Both. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: HR loses credibility when?

Kiki Kouris: Man, I think when employees don't feel that HR is being transparent. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah. The misconception about HR that frustrates you the most? 

Kiki Kouris: That anyone can be in HR. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: All right. Okay. What matters more culture or clarity? 

Kiki Kouris: Culture 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Is feedback, energizing or exhausting? 

Kiki Kouris: Energizing 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: And what feels more risky? Speaking up or staying quiet. 

Kiki Kouris: Staying quiet. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: And then I really love this one. One thing leaders misunderstand about HR professionals from the Millennial generation.

Kiki Kouris: Oh, that's a good one.

We have a lot going on outside of just the work that we do within HR in that we're multifaceted. We have a lot of different interests and we have a life outside of what our eight to five is. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: So it's that idea of work life balance.

Kiki Kouris: Yeah. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Perhaps. Yeah. Or as I tell people, it has now rapidly shifted to life work balance. 

Kiki Kouris: Yeah. Agree.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Now these, you can expand on. All right. So what shaped how you learned to be in HR early on in your career? 

Kiki Kouris: What shaped early on is I was thrown into the deep end in it, which that's how I learned best by navigating and figuring it out on my own.

So when I had first got into HR, because I didn't have any background in it or like coursework in school, I was like, oh my God, I need to go, take classes. And my manager at the time was like, Kiki. Classes are gonna be great, but you're gonna do a lot better by being in the trenches and in the field and understanding the day to day.

And I feel like the experiential learning helps me so much more, build that foundation. And then I'm getting my master's right now in HR and that coursework is great. Yeah. I have three more courses. I'm so excited. Hey, that's awesome. It's been good. But I think like diving in, in the deep end really helped understand the nuances of the function and what was needed. Also, another thing that really helped was understanding the dynamics of the individuals within the organization and like understanding each of the dynamics within the functions that I supported.

I feel as an HR business partner, it's really important to do one-on-ones and understand everybody in your kind of remit of responsibility 'cause you understand the person and then they feel comfortable enough to come to you with any questions, concerns, any thoughts that they have?

I really want employees to feel like they have an open door. With everyone in HR, and we talk about that a lot here which I love. The current organization that I'm in is if you have a great idea or suggestion, we're an open book. And to me, feedback is a gift and being kind is clear.

And so if something's not going right, let us know so we can try to fix it. Or if you think something could be done better or if you wanna be challenged differently in your career. So I feel like understanding the population really helped drive a better understanding of how is an HR professional to operate and then the rest of the different areas that kind of HR owns learn through courses or mentorship. Mentorship has been really important for me. As an HR professional. Like I said earlier, I've been really privileged to have really wonderful tenured HR professionals that are males and females. And hearing about them and being able to bounce ideas off of them has been really great for me.

And I highly recommend mentorship. I feel like it's a great relationship for both parties.

You got this experience early on and you were encouraged to actually choose experience over further courses, it sounds.

Kiki Kouris: Yeah. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Is that accurate?

Okay. But now after being in the field for over 10 years, you're like, oh, I wanna get some education. What was that shift? Are you glad you did it in that order? Other people might have a similar question in their own journey. 

Kiki Kouris: Yeah.

No, that's a great question. A lot of people, when they find out that I'm getting my master's, they're like, wow, why? And I'm like, to be honest, I forgot why I signed up. I feel like one day I was like a little bored and I'm like, maybe I'll go learn more. I wanted to challenge myself a little bit more.

I had studied for my SH RM certification years ago. And that was good because I liked learning the different theory behind a lot of the foundational structures within HR and learning behind the different disciplines and the different competencies that you need as an HR professional.

But then I feel like a few years ago I was exploring something online and then I was like, ah, maybe I should go get my master's. I feel like it might be good. And it's been interesting. Even though I feel like I'm 22 years old, I know I'm not 22 years old anymore. And I think that's a millennial thing.

I certainly don't look the age that I'm, or at least I tell myself that and try to make sure my forehead doesn't have wrinkles. But I think it's interesting going back to school at the age that I'm at, because the majority of the folks in my courses just graduated and they go to get their masters right away.

And so like I did things a little bit differently. Some of the courses I find have been really valuable where I'm like, oh, I'm learning. And I'm picking up a lot of different things. And some of the courses have been like, man, I knew all of this already. And so I think it's been a mixed bag, but I think it still unlocks different thinking as like I'm approaching my day to day where like I'll pull back and say oh, I remember this in that class, or I remember somebody in that class had given good feedback about this particular topic. I feel like the benefit that I'm getting the most out of my classes is like hearing from other people's experiences, either if they've worked in HR or if they're about to work in HR or

their feedback on like how they're understanding the concepts. That to me has been enriching throughout the classes. And I like having the discipline to be like, alright, I have work and then I'm gonna stop working at six. 'cause I have class tonight and I feel like I've been disciplined.

I've been taking only two courses a quarter, which to be honest can be a lot if you're traveling. It's a lot, but it's fun to be like, sorry, I can't go to that work dinner, I have class. And then people are like, class. And you're like, yeah. So it's like a good excuse sometimes to get out of dinners, but also I feel like it's helped me become a little more organized and diligent. College Kiki at Purdue when I was in my undergrad, if the bus didn't come, I'd be like, oh man, I gotta miss class today. But I feel like as an adult it is getting my master's because I'm paying for it too.

I'm like, I'm not missing a class. I'm getting an A in every class. I'm motivated. Whereas like before, I feel like I didn't necessarily take it as seriously. Yeah.

I think I'll be sad. Once I'm done. 'cause I love to learn and I loved like e-learning and this has been really fun too.

So I think I'm always just trying to pick up something new.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: And are you feeling like an impact on your career?

Kiki Kouris: I do. I definitely do, especially with some of the courses. Given everything that's been happening in the world over the course of the past, like three to five years. A lot of the classes that I've been taking on, like change management and leadership, I feel have been really helpful, especially as I'm now navigating into a role where I'm a leader in the organization, having a foundation and like how I want to present myself as a leader and like really being thoughtful on like my leadership what my values are as a leader. And I had a course where we had to write like this whole thesis on what was our leadership approach and how to really think through how we became who we are today.

Thinking through like our past. It was a really great course. That professor was amazing. She also taught change management, but I feel like it has helped because we're going through a lot of changes in the organization and like employees they're at the curve and you know how to bring them along with it. I wouldn't have known that if I didn't take those classes.

And it helps me meet employees where they are. To bring them along the journey and know that not everyone is gonna be at the same place and we're not all gonna move in this direction, and sometimes we move like that. So I feel like it has been very helpful. And I feel that it's helped me navigate my role better and to show up better for the organization, but to show up better for my people.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yep. Excellent. Yeah. So it's giving you a lot more depth.

Kiki Kouris: Yeah, that's what it, yeah. Yeah. That's what I feel like. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah. So how did entering the workforce during all that economic uncertainty influence your view of work in HR? 

Kiki Kouris: Oh, that's an interesting question. When I joined the workforce, I wasn't in HR.

So I joined about a year, maybe less than a year after I had graduated shortly before, my Yaya had passed away and it was when all my student loans started coming in the mail. And like you could not pay those. And so that spurred the thing where I was like, I need to pay for this debt of this degree. So it was like, alright, I'm just gonna find a job because I need one right now.

In hindsight, would I have taken that job? I would've not. And would I have been more thoughtful about how I approached positions from early on? I feel like I would've been, but I also felt the pressure that was coming down that I needed to start making money.

Like very real. And that kind of shaped me jumping in where I could fit my little foot in the door. And then from there, navigating my way through different places like sneaking my way in the front and being purposeful about things like that. But I think as it shapes HR.

I feel like that's really challenging as well because especially now within the market, the markets are really hard right now and it's really challenging for HR professionals to find work, but in the United States it's incredibly difficult to change positions right now, depending on like the particular field, and I have colleagues who you know are displaced that haven't been able to find positions. As HR becomes exceedingly difficult if you are working in HR in a time like this where the economy isn't great and you're not able to hire and you sometimes have to make difficult decisions to eliminate a position.

And it's hard because you feel for the person and there's sometimes nothing that you can do to be able to help them. And so it's challenging to work in HR when times aren't great. 'Cause people are looking to you to be the one to help and for you to be the one with the answers.

And unfortunately, you don't always have them and as transparent as you wanna be can only be up to a certain point. And so times like that can be really challenging, I feel like, for folks who are Millennials, because we want that transparency, right? And we want people to be super clear with us.

But there are some times in a position where you're not able to be. And I feel like those are the times where at night I'm like, man, today did not feel good in my gut.

So that kind of builds on my next question. Tell us about a time when HR felt aligned with your values versus being disconnected from your values.

Kiki Kouris: When HR is aligned with my values, I think it's when we're doing really great work when it comes to developing our employees and that we're being very purposeful on what people's development plans and giving them the opportunities to work on stretch projects and being very purposeful on like where do they stand when it comes to their career growth and being very transparent with them and not just like beating around the bush, if somebody can't like accelerate in their position.

Again, back to what I said earlier, being clear is kind. And I feel like as HR we do a really great job when we're able to help someone get from A to Z and they said that what they wanted was Z and how do we help them navigate through different projects through lateral moves, through, different assignments to help them get to where they wanna be in their career. As a millennial, that speaks a lot to me. And also when we do any sort of engagement with the community, stuff like that, I always love very much when as an organization, we do a lot when there's like natural disasters that hit.

And like I love when we do that. And when the hurricane hit Puerto Rico, I don't remember what year that was in maybe 2017. We had sent a plane of employees to Puerto Rico with batteries to help the individuals there. And I felt so proud working for the company that day. 'cause I was like, Aw man.

That's what it's about. Yes, it's about selling things and stuff like that, but it's about helping humanity and they did such an amazing job in that time. We were like super aligned.

I've worked unfortunately at companies like that where they don't necessarily see the human aspect of it.

And they just see people as an overhead cost and they don't make good investments on developing their people. Like I worked in one organization where they were really quick to just like. Cut a shift of employees for a one month and then they're like, oh we'll re rehire them in another month.

And it's these people aren't disposable. 

I think companies that treat employees like they're disposable are when those don't really jive with my values as an HR professional. Nor would I ever wanna work in an organization that saw people like that. But it's unfortunate that, there are organizations that operate that way that just see what the numbers are, and they don't necessarily see the person behind that.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah. And so I hear two things that I think about when I think about the Millennial generation, right? When you feel very aligned, it's very purpose driven. You're doing good in the world, and it's also very much about growth and development. Like how can I get this person from here to here? And it's where do they wanna go?

Not necessarily where do we wanna take them, but where do they wanna go and how can I come alongside them to get them there? 

Kiki Kouris: Yeah. Definitely, I think that's been my favorite part. Like I had left the organization I'm with for a few years. Did a couple other things, and then when I came back and seeing some people that, I hired that are four levels higher has been so gratifying to me.

I also am a big proponent of sometimes people leaving is a really great thing for their career. I always tell employees when I have exit interviews that, obviously I don't want to lose anyone that's like really great, but I also care about them and about their career as a person and if this next step in your career is going to be what takes you to the level that you want it to be, then I'm your biggest cheerleader.

And I never would burn a bridge with someone when what they're doing is gonna make them feel better about themselves and have a betterment for their life. So yeah, I would agree with that, Katherine.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: You've probably seen it before. A Gen Z employee suggests new software, but their boomer manager shuts it down with, no, we've always done it this way. Or maybe you've watched a traditionalist roll their eyes when a millennial colleague asks about working remotely. These moments create unproductive tension leading to frustration, dissatisfaction, and stress, but it doesn't have to be that way.

Work. Places don't have to be divided. That's why I created the Gen Shift e-learning course. With over 20 years studying generational differences, I've built over 40 lessons to help bridge the gap in life leadership and work. Enroll today and get 10% off with promo code, pod gen shift. Want to go deeper, schedule a free demo or book a workshop with your team to develop practical strategies for intergenerational success, visit catherine jeffrey.com/elearning.

To get started, let's build a space where every generation can thrive. I.

And what emotional labor does HR carry right now that might feel especially heavy?

Kiki Kouris: Ooh. If you're in the United States, there's a lot of things going on politically that are really heavy. And seeing that can be really tolling. A lot of organizations are gonna be super neutral and not share their stance.

And that can be really tolling emotionally on HR, if you feel a particular way about what's happening and I feel a particular way about what's happening. Things will go on during the weekend and then you're expected to show up on Monday and be like, everything's fine. When crazy stuff happened over the weekend. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: And you live downtown Chicago, so you're often in the midst of much of that, right? 

Kiki Kouris: Yeah. So it's hard to be like, oh, I have a poker face on Monday when like literally the world is on fire outside of like my window. And it's been, especially given now politically what's going on in different parts of the world.

There are individuals who live there and we just have to deal with it and do the best that we can and hope and pray that everything's gonna be fine. But they still show up 110% on Monday for everyone else at work, when literally outside of their house, like things are on fire.

It's hard to not feel for everyone when you're in the positions that we're in. And it's hard to be the strong rock because people are gonna come to you and it's hard to not have their like emotions latch onto you and not take it home. So that's been one of the most challenging things.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah, I hear that. Where do you as a millennial feel most misunderstood in HR today? 

Kiki Kouris: Oh, I feel like Millennials got a bad rap, but I also feel like we're not the ones that have the real bad rap anymore because the other generations have, come after us. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: So I always say that Millennials are so glad Gen Z has arrived because now they're not getting the bad rap anymore. 

Kiki Kouris: Yeah.

But it's been interesting, as a millennial for things that kind of, we had to endure. Now with different generations, we're like, oh, let's be very accommodating to this like individual because that's how they operate better. And it's what the heck? Oh, that person jumped 20 different jobs. Whereas if a Millennial were to have a lot of different job hopping in their career, like even five, 10 years ago, people would've been like, don't even interview that person. They're not reliable when it's realistically, we came in at a time where there aren't pensions. There isn't a reason for someone to stay long in an organization and realistically you make more money when you move around to different positions.

So it's been interesting as a millennial kind of getting through this shift of right now to be like, Hey, remember what you guys were like to us five, 10 years ago? Can we give everybody some grace? That's been interesting as a millennial kind of, seeing all the different generations now working together too has been really fascinating.

'cause right now it's like the most generations ever and people are waiting to retire because obviously it's financially very cumbersome to retire and it's hard to be able to save up a nest egg to be able to do that. So you have people that are super tenured and then you have people that are like fresh out of college.

They have to work together with the different communication dynamics that they have and different boundaries that they have, like in the generations after me, God bless them with their boundaries. Millennials don't have boundaries when it comes to work life. I will work early in the morning until midnight at night. 'cause I think that's what is expected and I wanna do well and I wanna move up. And they're like, Hey, four 30, sorry it's four 30. And oh my God, I wanna do that. I wanna be you, I wanna be the boundary. So I'm like, I need, they need to rub off a little bit on me.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: I think all of us would love those.

That's an interesting perspective actually, because Millennials have lived through this mindset from the past. And then Millennials have really pushed the envelope into the future. And then Gen Z's hello, we're actually gonna do it this way. The Millennials have been asking for it, but now we're actually gonna do it.

Kiki Kouris: Yeah. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: And the Millennials have been pulled in both directions. 

Kiki Kouris: Yeah. Yeah. It's been it's fun. Definitely is a fun time. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: So what do some of the maybe older executives, maybe Xers and Boomers assume that feels very outdated to you? 

Kiki Kouris: Oh, what do they assume? I think some assumptions may be that work is life and you are here to work. You have to be flexible to the job and be able to just drop everything to make the job fit. And I feel like sometimes they don't understand about the life that we have.

You have to make it fit for you. And I feel like that's where it's been a little challenging that no, I have a life and I have things going on the weekends and I have stuff at night and it's okay to do that because I'm not made on the earth to just do this job. And like we're so much more than just like the position that we have.

That's where I see the biggest disconnect, whereas the previous generations, and perhaps I'm overgeneralizing, I'm sure. I know I am. I feel like they perhaps, really thought all about who they were was their career and I feel like Millennials are like, we're so much more than what our career is and we wanna make room for all of it.

And that isn't necessarily what it was. You know what it's like previously. So I feel like that's been the biggest challenge where it's like, why can't you go to this on that day? And it's I have a concert booked from four months ago. And it's yeah, still, why can't you travel on a Sunday?

I have a family party. You can miss it, but it's I don't wanna miss it. Like, my job is not the 365 day, 24 hours a day like thing. It's not like the reason why my, he beats, we're so much more than that and I feel like previous generations it was like, your job is life.

And now it's it's not though. We're so much more yeah, your job pays your bills great. That's great and it provides you value and you get really good satisfaction out of it, but it's not the one thing there was. 300 other things that make up like who Kiki is.

I have nine like other things that fill up my cup that I want to be u utilizing to fill my cup up and like it's not just this one thing. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: I love how you said that and it goes back to what we said at the beginning, right? It's work-life balance. Like That is really important.

And I think every generation would've appreciated that. It just wasn't the mindset or the culture that was gonna get us anywhere necessarily. Yeah. And so I think it's wonderful and I love that you said fill my cup. Like we all need to find ways to fill our cup and feel like healthy human beings showing up in the world.

Kiki Kouris: Yeah. Because I often am like, what are we here for? You think about it like. We're on this, like hamster wheel during the time that we're working, and then we maybe can enjoy it when we're older and then we die. It's what are we on earth for?

So I feel like I've been really thinking a lot about that recently. Maybe it's just 'cause I'm tired, but I feel like often I'm like, what is our purpose? Like the purpose that we, and I'm sure that's probably a big millennial thing, but I often think that like what it. What is the purpose of what we're doing?

Is it to just have a paycheck and buy a nice bag or what's the point of that? And I always reflect whenever I go to Greece over the summer and the people that I see and know at least, like they love their life so much and they don't really have a lot, but they find so much value in all that they have and then I'm like, what am I doing?

When I like need that extra pair of shoes or what on earth? Like why can't we just be a little more content with the beauty that we have in our life and with the community that we have and not have to fill it up with like superficial things. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: So what feels especially Millennial about how you practice HR? 

Kiki Kouris: I think the one thing that feels the most Millennial to me is when people tell me, you're the least HR person I've ever worked with. And I say, that's the best compliment. 'cause it means that I'm, they're comfortable coming to me and that they know that I see them as a person and they see me as a person.

I've had a lot of conversations with employees that I support and they'll tell me stories about a previous individual that they worked with in in my field, and they're like, I could never come to them like how I come to you. And I couldn't be open with them because one, they either didn't have time or they didn't hear what I was saying.

And I tried to be really practical in how I operate with the employees and I try to be very transparent, and I'm like this with everyone. This is a Kiki, you'll get if you are the highest level of the organization to the, any level of the organization. And I don't necessarily like change who I am based on like the seniority of a person.

Like I think people are people and I try to always meet them where they are and feel the human in them. And I feel like that's a little bit how Millennials are a little bit different with how they try to connect and ensure that employees feel heard and that they feel valued and that they feel like they have a purpose in what they're doing.

That's very important for the employees in the organization. But it's also very important for a Millennial HR individual to be able to articulate that back to the employee, to know that like they're here for a reason. They're not just here to like crunch numbers what they do, like impacts this, that impacts that.

And you don't ever want people to feel just like cogs in a wheel. And so I feel like that's why I operate a little bit differently. 'cause I try to establish that connection and that transparency with them so then they feel comfortable coming to me. If they have, if anything's going on that's like hokey that shouldn't be going on, or if like they're interested in this, that, or the other.

Or if they have something going on at home that they need help with like our employee assistance program. Like they feel comfortable enough coming to you for that. You never know what's going on in someone's home life that's then impacting work, so I try to operate a little bit differently 'cause I want people to know that like I feel for them and I am there for them. Not in a mother way. I don't ever coddle or mu people, like that's another thing I do not do, but I try to be fair with them and I don't beat around the bush 'cause I don't like to operate like that.

I want them to know what the truth is that I can share. And if I can't I'll say this is as much as I can tell you and and when I can share more with you, I will. But I think as a millennial HR, I feel like follow up is really important to us. Because we don't wanna leave anybody hanging, if they reach out to us and then we don't respond to me, that's like very disrespectful to the person that's like reaching out to you with a question or with anything.

And I feel like Millennials do a good job at either coming back to say I don't have an answer right now. I'm working on it. 'cause they don't want the person to ever feel like they're out there on an island not being heard and not being supported. Yep. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: You're picking up on what tend to be really strong millennial values, right?

Everybody's heard, everybody has a voice. That's really important. And that people have that safety to come to you. And then you also touched on that idea that, we're all equals, it doesn't matter what our position is. And that's a huge shift from the Millennials versus, the Boomer and the Gen X world.

It's, if I'm the boss. Therefore, I'm the boss. You need to respect me. And that has shifted, which I think has a lot to do with Millennials being the first generation to call their parents their friends, right? And so there's now this relationship that goes both ways instead of one, oh, you're older than me, therefore I just need to respect you.

It's, no, we're actually in this together. And we both contribute. 

Kiki Kouris: Yeah. I do think that we don't necessarily see a hierarchy. And I do think that we operate in a way of respect, like no matter what the hierarchy is. I think Millennials get a wrap where perhaps people think that like they don't respect the hierarchy.

Like they don't respect that person. But we just respect everyone. I don't give two hoots what your title is. To me, titles are not important when a lot of people get really hung up on them, and I'm like, I don't care what your title is.

I'm gonna literally treat you all the exact same way and I want you to treat me the same way too, 'cause to me, my title doesn't define who I am at all. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yep. That's really well said. Yep. And what do you wish other generations understood about your experience working in HR?

Kiki Kouris: So I think what other generations need to understand is that we've worked through a lot of really challenging times and also a lot of profound shifts within the dynamics of the workforce. Working as Millennials, like we were, rather low in our tenure throughout the majority of it.

And now with the evolution with ai, we're going through so many different shifts. And we've had to navigate through a lot of different things at a young age. And now ensuring that we have credibility when we walk into the room I think is important. Even in the past years with COD, which wasn't even 10 years ago, it feels like 15 sometimes.

But I feel like they have to better understand the great backgrounds that we bring based on what we've seen and our differences should be valued. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: I love that. And then here's a final kind of reflective question. What happens when organizations ask for commitment without offering their people growth?

Kiki Kouris: When organizations ask to commit and they don't expect to develop you, then they're not gonna get your commitment because what's in it for me? Why should I be committed if I'm gonna say stagnant. Growth doesn't necessarily just mean like a promotion to me, growth is learning.

It's expanding what, and it could be lateral moves, it could be working on a project. So I think organizations do themselves a disservice if they think someone's just gonna be here because they're happy to have a paycheck. That's not gonna keep someone driven and it's not gonna keep someone fully developing and you're going to do the company a disservice by not expanding someone's knowledge and expertise.

So I feel like companies that probably operate like that are not gonna be around for very long. 'cause they're not gonna have innovative thinking and they're not gonna have people coming in with new ideas on like how to make the company better. Because people are probably gonna leave if they're not being challenged to develop.

So I think that company needs to rethink their strategy if they're only thinking commitment with no development. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: And then is there anything else you wanna share about the millennial perspective in HR? 

Kiki Kouris: I feel like now we're starting to have a seat at the table more, which is great. And I wanna ensure that continues. And I also think that. People have to give Millennials more credibility in their experiences, but also in their insights that they're bringing to the conversation and make room for them at the table.

That'll be when companies really unlock from an HR perspective. A really great little secret sauce is when they are allowing for that room of the diversity of thinking. When it comes to what Millennials bring, because again, we're not just a one size, life is work type person.

And they understand also the nuances and what drive each individual employee. And that it's not like a, oh, this generation just wants a paycheck. Giving them a seat at the table is gonna be really important. And we're not too young to have one.

' cause we're, we're not spring chickens anymore. And so I think that perhaps understanding that too, that like we do have a lot of really great experience and insight that we can bring in, that the company can better leverage to step change how they operate. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: That was so well said.

And I will add, yeah, Millennials are now 45, the oldest millennial. 

Kiki Kouris: I'm not.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: No, that would be the Xal episode or the xal, as some people say it. Those are your elder Millennials. But no you're in the sweet spot of the true Millennials. Thanks.

And Kiki, you've just been amazing. I love your energy. I've always loved your energy and it's been such a privilege to work with you for all these years.

Kiki Kouris: I feel very grateful to have you in my life. Katherine, you've been an angel ever since I first met you, and all the work that you do is, very close to my heart and I just love the work that you do to help humanity move forward. So it's not lost on me. All the great research that you've done and all the great education that you bring to everybody online and in person. So you're doing really amazing things, and my life is more full because you're in it.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Thank you.

So as we close today, here's what stands out to me. So Millennials in HR have been carrying a tremendous amount of emotional and organizational weight, and I think you heard that if you were really listening to Kiki, you heard that come out of her today. They've been navigating rapid change, protecting culture, managing crisis after crisis, and trying to actually hold the line between organizational tension and the reality of the employee's experience.

And you can see what a high value that is for her. And these stories remind us that generational context isn't theory. It shows up in how people actually lead, how they actually communicate, and what they're willing to fight for. So as we continue this series, we'll shift from the Millennial lens to the generation who's stepping into HR right now, Gen Z.

This was a generation shaped by instability, information overload, identity, mental health awareness, and desire for clarity, belonging, and meaningful work from day one. And Kiki touched on that today as well. So if you think Millennials changed, HR, Gen Z is about to rewrite the rules again. Thank you for listening.

If today's conversation sparks something for you, please share it with a colleague and meet us next time as we step into HR through Gen Z. Eyes.