Diane Vlcek: To me, HR becomes that partner when there is a willingness to get into the world of the people you're serving and be alongside them walking in their shoes for a while. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Welcome to GenShift where generations explored life, work and leadership. This episode is the beginning of our new series. We're looking at HR through each generation's eyes. We're going to look at one generation at a time, and we're not evaluating HR and we're not defending hr.

We're working to understand the role and how it was shaped over time. So today we're gonna learn from the boomer generation. And remember, boomers entered the workforce during relative institutional stability. They had clear hierarchies, they expected loyalty, and you earned respect over time. HR was often considered the protector of policy and the protector of the overall organization.

Today we get the really special privilege to hear from Diane Volek. She retired almost exactly to the day three years ago, and she's worked in HR for decades. She's been in leadership and has seen how the function has evolved across multiple eras. Diane, tell us a little bit about your work journey in HR and what kind of experience, which is pretty remarkable, everybody that you're bringing to today's episode.

Diane Vlcek: When I started in HR, I don't know what it was, but it always felt like a calling to me to be able to minister to people of all backgrounds and in all stages and ages of life. I didn't have a deliberate plan for my career. I really didn't. I pursued the educational route of it, so I had a double major in college.

It was finance and HR, and I minored in computer science because that was the up and coming thing. I had to double up on classes because that's how old I am, that computers weren't really a thing especially at the personal computing level. 

They introduced this minor when I was a junior.

And so I thought that sounds like a cool thing to get. So I doubled up on classes so that I could, get enough credits to have this minor. And I ended up using all of that educational background. It was almost like a dare. People said to me at the time, I entered college, don't worry about what your major is because chances are you won't go into a field that uses your major.

And I always thought that was ridiculous. And for me, I ended up using the finance, the HR, and the computer science background in every job that I had. My first role was in the field of executive compensation. There was this tiny little consulting firm that offered me a job as an office manager because when I graduated, the job market was super tight and I thought, okay, this is at least an HR field.

And I'll be an office manager. It was just a six person office. I thought I could manage that. And after three weeks I thought, oh my goodness, get me outta here. This is the worst possible fit for me. And I went and talked to the owner of the firm who was a classy, suave, wonderful man. And I told him, Fred, this is just not gonna work out for me.

And he said. Diane, there might be another role that we could create for you. And sure enough, they created a research associate role for me where I was then gathering data that the consultants would use to put together their proposals and their projects for our clients. 

And so that introduced me to this field of compensation. And from there I was in consulting for a few years and then I thought, I wanna be on the stakeholder side of the business. And so I wanted to work in a corporation rather than constantly dreaming up these projects and then handing 'em off to the client.

And you never know what happens to them. Yeah. And I ended up working with Navistar, the former International Harvester and from there I was exposed to training and development. I had a wonderful mentor. I had a couple of wonderful mentors at Navistar who saw things in me that I did not see in myself, that they gave me opportunities that were ridiculous for a 20 something.

And these things were very growing and challenging for me. And that eventually led me to a role with International Paper. From International Paper I became a mother. And so I did a sidestep where I was freelance consulting for a few years. At the end of four years of freelance consulting, I was offered a role with what was then Ameritech.

Now it's a part of SBC or at and TI can't remember all these phone companies have broken apart and rejoined so many times. I can't remember. But I worked for the phone company for three years, and from there I went to a small family owned business. And it was my first taste of international work.

So I had worked for big companies and then I go to a small company, and that's where my world opened up to international practices. And from there I went to Marmon. And Marmon is where the last 14 years of my career was spent. That had a little sidetrack into Duracell for a few years. But I ended up as a chief HR officer for the last 14 years of my career. And people have often asked me, how did you get there? What was the path that, how did you set out? And I'm like, I didn't set out. 

I wasn't trying, I wasn't trying. And, and there was a woman early in my career who said something very wise when another person asked her how she got to where she is.

And she answered very simply, and that is, do your current job well and you will be noticed. 

That kind of stuck with me and as I look back on my career. I just think every one of the jobs I had was a building block. It, widened that base of experiences from which to draw and gives you just a different view, and you have to be in a job long enough to really get something from it.

People who hopscotch, who, do this job for a year and that job for a year, I don't think you have a chance to really learn from that role unless you've been through two complete annual cycles. 

So that's my minimum. Be in a job for at least two years. Three is probably best because then you can really start making improvements that you'll be able to see longitudinally, whether those improvements are exactly what's needed.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: That's a really interesting point because a lot of people listening to this probably have done some job hopping. So you just said the three years, allows you to actually make change, right? Where one year you're just taking it all in. You're like, okay, this is how this works, this is where this goes.

So, you would recommend a full three year cycle? 

Diane Vlcek: I think three is ideal. Because again, in that first year, you're learning everything for the first time in the second year it's okay, this is beginning to be familiar. I can predict what's gonna happen if I do this. And then in that third year you have some confidence to say, okay, I've seen a trend and I think that this is really what we need to move the needle.

And you'll get the chance to see if it is effective, at least. To the point that you thought it would be. And to be able to learn and actually influence the organization. That to me is the real cash of a job. That's where you're learning and growing. Instead of just taking from a job, you're giving back to the job, you're giving to the company.

And, it's better to give than to receive because actually it comes back to you many times over. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yep. And do you think, like looking back that your career path, getting to where you were, CHRO of Marmon is, it's a pretty big position. You've got a lot of responsibility and perhaps by putting in your time along the way, do you feel like that then equipped you to handle that kind of responsibility?

Diane Vlcek: Absolutely. It gives you legs. When you have, done the work and you have learned, and you have taken in and given back, you've learned, you've grown, you've taken on counsel. That's something I really impress upon people who ask me for career advice. It's like you have to be humble.

You have to be able to take feedback, to take coaching. People are gonna see things in you that you don't see in yourself for the good and for the bad. And you have to be able to take both. And I always tell people you learn the most from adversity.

So throughout my career I was blessed with wonderful bosses who just adored what I did, except for two. I had two bosses that were absolutely impossible to please. 

I could do nothing right. For these two different bosses.

Thankfully, they had a few years in between. It wasn't back to back. Oh, good. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah. 

Diane Vlcek: But I learned more from them than I did from the bosses who loved everything that I did. Just that being in the fire. Think of it like, you know what happens with a potter who's working with clay, the clay is soft and malleable, and that clay has to be thrown into a steaming hot furnace in order to be sealed and to be a water carrying vessel.

And I see those two bosses that were really hard for me as being my furnace. It was like walking through fire, but it made me stronger. It made me better. It made me a better counselor. It made me more empathic in so many ways. And really, those two bosses were probably the best things that happened to me, even though it was not fun going through it.

Because when you have those kinds of experiences early in your career or during your career, it sets you up for other disappointments that don't necessarily come because of a difficult relationship with your boss. For example, when I came back to Marmon from my Duracell time I was asked to be Mormon's first chief HR officer.

I had been at Marmon before going to Duracell, so I knew what I was stepping back into. With Marmon, a very highly decentralized company that was like a 200 plus individual companies that were all under one umbrella called Marmon. Yes. And when I came back, I said to the person who would become my boss, I said, if I come back, I'm gonna wanna put in a system.

And, I think all the blood drained from his face when I said that because he knew that would be really expensive. Marmon was not a tech savvy company. Technology was not a thing. It's an industrial company. And I'm like, I have to know who all of our employees are, where they are. I need to know how to contact them, how to communicate with them.

There's 25,000 of them around the globe. How do you expect me to be CHRO if I don't even know who they're? 

And Katherine that system implementation was the biggest project of my life. And I had big projects before, but that one, it was a whale of a project. And if I hadn't had the kinds of experiences throughout my career that led up to that.

I never would've been able to sustain what I needed to sustain in order to see that project through. And yeah, the, all of those tough experiences I think young professionals today and professionals of all ages need to understand that adversity is their friend. Just in very strange clothing, may not look like a friend, but it really is a friend because it grows you, it grows your base, it grows your height, it grows everything about you if you bring the right perspective to what that adversity is trying to teach you.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: So how would you coach a Genzer or a Millennial who often talk about I don't wanna be part of a toxic culture. I want to feel good about the people I work with. What would you say to them if they had a boss that they're like, this boss won't listen to me.

I don't feel respected. Like, how would you counsel them on that? 

Diane Vlcek: Yeah. So I think this is one of those incredible generational differences between Boomers and even Millennials and Gen Xers and Gen Xers to a different degree. Yeah. But with millennials and Gen Z in particular, we, Boomers were raised on this steady diet of saying that, these people are in positions of authority over you for a reason.

And it's your job to learn from them. Period. Respect was given to the office. You might not have liked the person, but you, as a young Boomer in the workforce, respected elders, period. That was the starting point.

And so it wasn't about a popularity contest and how did I feel working for that person? It was really an upside down from where we are today, perspective that says, my job is to learn from them. And if that means that I have to swallow hard on some things, if I'm not always gonna feel great about things.

So be it because they're in a position of authority over you for a reason, and you have something to learn from them, and it's your job to find it. And so what I would say to a Gen Zer today who has a difficult boss, I would say learn from them. Swallow hard. Don't take the easy path because you are gonna grow more from a tough boss than you will from one who you know, thinks the sun rises and sits on you.

Don't get me wrong, it's fun to have those kinds of bosses and you need to have them interspersed with the tough bosses, to have a steady diet of tough bosses, that's no fun either, but instead of seeing a four alarm fire, when you have a tough boss, I would counsel that person to say.

Look at that boss as an opportunity for growth that you will not have with a boss who makes you feel good. So stick with it. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah, I love that. And sometimes when we work for tough bosses, it helps shape how we then turn into a boss later down the road. 

Diane Vlcek: Absolutely. It grows compassion it grows patience, it grows perseverance, it grows character. These are all things that you bring with you to the next job that's waiting for you and that are really distinctives. These are character elements that distinguish you from many others. At least that's what I found throughout my career. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah. That's really good stuff. I always tell people like boomers, they have a lot up here that they're ready to share, and that's why I'm so excited to have you on the show even today because one, I just think the world of you, not only as a professional all thank you, but you're just an incredible person.

For you to take this time to share your wisdom from what you learned, because you started out as an office manager and you ended up as the CHRO of a major corporation and you've had quite a journey along the way. So I think you have a lot that you can teach us. 

Diane Vlcek: I am happy to share and to help in however way that I can because I think there's such a blessing in work. Work was given to us not as a curse, but as something to really use the gifts that we've been given. I hope more people would see work as a blessing. It is a way to discover things about yourself that you wouldn't otherwise know. It's gonna grow you in ways differently than any other opportunity that you have in life.

And it's your opportunity to really make a difference in the lives of many others. Yep. Whether it's your direct team that you work with or whether it's, a broader canvas that you're given. Wherever you are, you make the most of it. When I have career counseled people, it seems like they oftentimes have this real urgency, to climb climb, climb, climb, climb.

And I'm like, you have to move in to every role you are given. Don't be eyeing the next opportunity because you're gonna miss what is on the plate in front of you.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: So good.

Diane Vlcek: I really see it that way. Take it in instead of, having your eye on that next role. You're gonna miss what's right there in front of you. Make the most impact exactly where you're at. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: I love that too, because for younger generations, any information they want is at their fingertips, right?

And I think rightfully so, in some ways, they're like, I got this, I got all the information right, and it all makes sense to me. But then there's that piece that comes with experience, right? Wisdom and wisdom does come when you sit at the table and you eat the meal and you unpack the suitcase, right?

You're in it and your intuition grows. I think your ability to connect pieces, your ability to understand the context, and that doesn't just come when you're just taking in information. It comes from actually going through a process. 

Diane Vlcek: That's so true. You have to go deep.

You have to engage and, when I retired. We were still coming out of the COVID years. COVID was a disruptor like nothing else I've seen in my lifetime. 

And when you lost that in-person contact and I think some of that is starting to come back, people are engaging more in face-to-face 

But still, I feel like it, it hasn't yet returned fully to what it was before COVID. I fear that one of the legacies of COVID is this propensity to not fully engage. 

When you're working in a virtual setting and you don't have to show up for eight to 10 to 12 hours a day in the office and you can plug in, you can take a meeting, you can be virtually available, and then you end that call and then you can go make lunch in your kitchen.

You can go do a load of laundry.

You can slip out for a doctor's appointment, and no one knows because that, it's so flexible. It all contributes to that distance. That people have not yet, fully engaged with their organization, with their work. Because there is this distance that is so natural for many office workers, especially, that haven't returned full-time to an office setting.

So I invite people to really think about, how fully engaged are they? How invested are they? Because to me, you won't have the full experience of that role until you do fully engage and fully invest in it. And yeah, does it cost you something? Sure. But the return is unbelievable. You are not gonna get the full return unless you make the full investment.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: And talk about that for a minute. What is the return from someone who did this for your whole career? What is the return? Because if I'm was sitting over here as a Gen Z and maybe I even entered the workforce during COVID and I'm used to working from home and I like doing my laundry during the day, right?

All those things, like, why would I wanna shift that? Tell me why. 

Diane Vlcek: Looking back over a 40 year career, and there were many sacrifices made over the course of that 40 years. I looked back with such great satisfaction because I feel like I didn't leave anything on the table.

I put it all out there. I gave my heart and soul to the work that I did over the course of those 40 years. I made some wonderful lifelong friendships

over the course of those 40 years. And it was meaningful, it was meaningful to know that all of those hours meant something.

Because at the end of a 40 year career, I've never taken the time to really add up all hours that I worked. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah. 

Diane Vlcek: Probably best that I don't you want to feel some satisfaction to it. That it was worth it and for me. A lot of people ask me aren't you gonna consult?

Aren't you gonna continue to stay engaged with the workforce? And for me, because I gave everything I had to give in those 40 years, I was happy to close that chapter and open myself up for things that I didn't have the opportunity to do during the 40 years that I was working. So it's like you close that chapter up, you put a bow on it, and it's with great satisfaction that you say, I did my best.

I rung out every inch of opportunity from this. And now that's that cha chapter, and now I'm free to move into. This new chapter, which is totally different than the 40 years that came before it. And and it's wonderful. So I sleep really well at night. That's one of the rewards, 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: We had an earlier Boomer podcast.

They said they're they're not retired. They're rewired. 

Diane Vlcek: I like that. That's cool. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: I was like, that's a good one.

Okay. I'm gonna take you through a lightning round of questions. 

Diane Vlcek: Okay. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: All right. So first one in one word, what was it like to work in HR during your career?

Diane Vlcek: Exhilarating. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: When you first chose hr, did you know what you were getting into and why did you choose it anyway? 

Diane Vlcek: I did not know what I was getting into, and I chose it anyway because I've always felt this call to work with people. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Awesome. What was the hardest part of being in HR? 

Diane Vlcek: Earning your seat at the table.

Because at the time that I entered HR, it was really coming out of that personnel label that it had been given, it was strictly an administrative function, unnecessary evil, certainly not a strategic partner, right? To try to earn your seat at the table and to have a voice and to become an influence that was the hardest part for me.

But it was the part that I relished. I looked forward to that actually. I dunno if that makes me a massive not. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: You probably helped pioneer how HR looks today, right? Like you've watched it evolve and been a strong voice in there.

Diane Vlcek: Yeah.

It was a really fun journey to see it change from this very administrative function to becoming a strategic, trusted partner. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah. Let's talk about that. What did that evolution look like throughout your career? Were there landmarks that you remember? 

Diane Vlcek: I don't know that there was anything particularly milestone ish about it.

It for me it had to do with developing the personal relationship with my boss, whoever that person was.

And to have that trust. I had one boss every time I walked into his office, he would grab the arms of his chair and he would white knuckle it. What crazy idea is she gonna come in here now?

What does she want? It's gonna be another woo out there idea. But he was just scared to death of all of my ideas. And, so that was one milestone for me because he was born in this personnel world. He was at the oldest end of the boomer generation. I was barely a boomer.

And so he had grown up with a very administrative view of personnel. That's what it was to him. You get people in the door, you get 'em papered, you get 'em, paid, and then you do the exit interview when it's time for them to leave. Yeah. And it was just a very transactional approach to HR.

He hired me and boy, talk about not knowing what you were getting. Now be careful what you wish for, because he hired me knowing that I had a different view of what HR could be. And so consequently, for the first nine months of my employment, he white knuckled it every time I walked into his office because here was gonna be another crazy scheme that she wants to implement.

And we had an interesting opportunity. So we flew together into Raleigh, North Carolina and we rented a car and for a solid week we drove to every plant that we had within a 200 mile radius of Raleigh.

So we had a ton of windshield time together. Yeah. And this is nine months into my time working for him. 

I was new to the company, new to him. And one thing that he loved to do was drive, driving was his happy place. So here he is behind the wheel and I'm riding shotgun next to him. And we have all of this windshield time to get to know each other.

And I learned something very important. Just the physicality of conversations because when I would walk into his office, we would be face to face. And there's something that happens when you're face to face. It can seem more confrontational than it needs to. But here we were side by side facing out the windshield.

And so side by side, it wasn't at all confrontational. We got to know each other in that week of driving around. 

And when we came back from that trip, he no longer white knuckled it. When I walked into his office, he became much more receptive to my ideas. And in fact, there was one day he walked into my office.

And he said, Diane, there is a person who came to see me today and I'm wondering if you could call and coach him. I almost fell out of my chair because HR doing coaching. What are you kidding me? So he actually had the idea that I would take on a coaching assignment with this executive and I thought, oh Lord, thank you for this miracle.

It was a small but really important change. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah. 

Diane Vlcek: He was seeking my input and then he would bring that input to our CEO and it became much more hearable from him than it ever would've been. Of course, from me. Yeah. And thankfully he was a man of integrity.

He never took credit for my ideas. He would slowly tell our chairman this was actually Diane's idea. And all of a sudden, when your ideas start to get heard and implemented and they have success. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah. There's value.

Diane Vlcek: All of a sudden, oh, you're invited to the table. You don't have to push your way to the table, you're invited.

And and that was a really fun transition to see, because then I went to Duracell and Duracell being just jettisoned from Proctor and Gamble, which is a very progressive company. I walked into Duracell and I didn't have any of these hurdles to overcome. It's yes, we love you. We want HR please help us.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah. 

Diane Vlcek: Then the thought four years later of coming back to Marmon, which was a more traditional company, it had all sorts of conditions. For me, it's okay, do you really want me to come back now that I've been Duracell?

It was very fun. And thankfully I had a very courageous boss at Marmon who was like, that's exactly what I wanna bring to Marmon.

I praise God. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: And you did. 

Diane Vlcek: Yeah, I think in many ways, yeah. I was really pleased with the work we were able to accomplish. I had a wonderful team that worked really hard.

They had the same vision and and Marmon is filled with really good people. So even though we were bringing some pretty hair-brained ideas, they were ready and they were willing and we did a lot of good stuff in that time. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: And the work ethic over there, it's hard to be, they hire very hard workers. Yeah. 

Diane Vlcek: Yes. Marmon has broad shoulders. Yes. The people are terrific. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yes. Yes. I remember you saying too with some of the companies that were part of Marmon, when you got there, they were still writing down everything on like handwritten spreadsheets. 

Diane Vlcek: Yes. Yes. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: So to bring them all into a system was like, oh my goodness, where do I start?

Diane Vlcek: Oh, it was crazy. You had 200 different ways of doing things. So you know, a lot of people when they're doing a system implementation, data is always the devil, right? Yes. Trying to master data, right? I'm like, we don't have master data, so maybe this will be a little easier. And it wasn't easier because of it.

I always tell people we went from being the Flintstones to being Jetsons. There was no stop off at the Simpsons in between, that was Flintstones to Jetsons. Boomers will understand that reference. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yes. They'll, so will Gen X we get that too. 

Diane Vlcek: Okay, good. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: That's so good. You accomplished something that was.

Pretty impossible to accomplish. So you worked very hard right up to your retirement, right? Your own shoulders are very broad. 

Diane Vlcek: I was blessed to have wonderful parents that taught us a work ethic from the time we were little.

And just teeny tots. There were five children in our family and my mother knew how to delegate to those five children to make sure that we were keeping the house running. Yeah. And we all had jobs when we were 15 years old and it was just inbred. Yeah. In all of us that you are to do everything to your best and do it with diligence, be diligent, be reliable, be dependable and be humble.

Yeah. Those were. Some of the things that my parents passed on to me.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: You've clearly carried that throughout your career. 

Diane Vlcek: I hope so. Like I said, my career, 40 years of work were an incredible gift. All 40 years. I wouldn't trade one of 'em. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: I hear you.

You've probably seen it before. A Gen Z employee suggests new software, but their boomer manager shuts it down with, no, we've always done it this way. Or maybe you've watched a traditionalist roll their eyes when a millennial colleague asks about working remotely. These moments create unproductive tension leading to frustration, dissatisfaction, and stress, but it doesn't have to be that way.

Work. Places don't have to be divided. That's why I created the GenShift e-learning course. With over 20 years studying generational differences, I've built over 40 lessons to help bridge the gap in life leadership and work. Enroll today and get 10% off with promo code, pod GenShift. Want to go deeper, schedule a free demo or book a workshop with your team to develop practical strategies for intergenerational success, visit katherine jeffrey.com/elearning.

To get started, let's build a space where every generation can thrive. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: When do you believe HR made work better for people?

Diane Vlcek: To me, I think it was in the nineties when more generally HR was beginning to change its face. 

From being the policy cops to actually being value added partners to the business. And it started slowly in the nineties to make that shift is what I can tell.

And for me, when I have networked and, just conversed with different HR professionals, I think the individual experience for HR professionals that the shift happens when you begin to listen rather than to tell.

My parents always said you had two ears, one mouth.

Use 'em in that proportion. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: That's right. 

Diane Vlcek: So listen at least twice as much as what you do to tell people. And I think, when I have coached HR people who are earlier in their career, sometimes I have sensed that there's disappointment that people just don't accept what they say. And my shot to them is always have you listened to what their needs are?

Do you know where they're at? Have you been really keen on getting into their world and understanding their world before you share all this wonderful wisdom that you have? Because if your wisdom might be just what they need, but they may not be in a position to hear it. Yep. Because they don't yet trust you.

And they don't know what your agenda is. So you really to me, the individual experience of whether you're a difference maker in your organization is whether or not your client base trusts you to understand their needs to do what's best for them to subjugate your own personal agenda to theirs.

Mm-hmm. And to have the greater good in mind instead of your own individual ambitions or goals. So I think that's what what the differences for HR people is to really be credited with taking a deep interest in understanding the business and listening, taking the time. Being in Marmon where we had these 200 more than 200 companies, depending on how you counted them. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Right.

Diane Vlcek: It made a huge difference. When I would go out to the field I couldn't do my job staying in my ivory tower. I had to go out there and walk through the factories, have town hall meetings with their employees, see the surroundings. Some of these manufacturing settings are really physically tough.

And to go out there and put on your jeans and your work boots and to walk the fields and be with them next to 'em.

It made all the difference in the world, and I would suggest that to any HR professional but you would definitely see what their working conditions were like, the challenges that they faced, and it just made you that much better as you got back to your normal HR job.

You did that work with a much better informed. Point of view and that, what seemed like a good idea on paper to you before, now that you've been out in the field? Yeah. That's a really dumb idea that it doesn't have legs out in the field where it needs to. To me, HR becomes that partner when there is a willingness to get into the world of the people you're serving and be alongside them walking in their shoes for a while, and to do it regularly.

It's not a one and done thing. What you experienced in January of 2026 is not necessarily gonna be the same as what you'll experience in July of 2027. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: And you, it sounds like it was more windshield time, literally windshield 

Diane Vlcek: time. Yes. Literally windshield time where you can hear.

What are the concerns? What do they deal with on a daily basis? Is there anything I can do in my role that makes that less onerous? That takes away some of this noise that they're dealing with. And, I can't remember exactly what it was, but I remember being in one of these field situations where the the person I was talking with was telling me, this policy that you guys did, this is how it affects me, and I'm looking at what it meant for him to, comply with that policy.

I'm like that's ridiculous. I went to the office the next day, we changed the policy, and it's huh, all right. There's a win. We just scored a win for the good guys. Yeah. Because you have to. You have to see what the ripple down effect is. Of all of these things that you think are such a brilliant idea, in your boardroom.

Yeah. And they don't necessarily play well in Peoria. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: That's really good. And so even in what you're saying now, it comes down to connection and empathy and curiosity. 

Diane Vlcek: Yes.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: And it's spending time together in whatever that looks like. Whether it's on a railroad track, it's in the van for the phone company, whatever it might be.

But you're spending time together to understand each other's perspective. 

Diane Vlcek: Yes. I will never forget how surprised people were because when I was working, I like clothes, I like high heels, I like makeup, I like hair, I, yeah. It's just who I am. Yeah.

And, so here I am, this kind of debutante person who would wear work boots, tie my hair up, wear jeans, and get in there with them. And they were like, huh. That wasn't at all what I was expecting of her. 

And they're like, whoa. 

Wow. What the heck? The debutante gets in the trenches with us. I went into a controlled environment vault which you had to crawl down a manhole cover to get into the controlled environment vault when I was working for the phone company.

And it was gross down there, but I did it and they were shocked to see me because they were used to seeing me on videos.

Right. With hair and makeup and lights, camera, action. And it's oh, that same person. Here she is getting in the controlled environment vault with me. And you know what, that gets through the grapevine really quickly.

And so even though, I was only interacting with a handful of people, it was amazing to me how in other settings I would hear, oh, I heard you got down in that CEV the other day. That was pretty impressive. So it's really good to surprise people in a good way. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: I love that. 

Diane Vlcek: Willingness, to get in there and spend time in their world.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: And it's almost so you're this woman behind the video screen. Yeah. And now you have a shared humanity. 

Diane Vlcek: Exactly. Exactly. Which is exactly what happened with my boss on that 200 mile radius ride. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yep. 

Diane Vlcek: I wasn't this, upstart, ambitious. Young professional anymore. I was human. I was side by side with him in that car sharing stories of our careers and our families and what's important to us.

What are our disappointments, what are our hopes that, that shared humanity makes all the difference. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: And he got to hear your heart. And so it even sounds like he released his white knuckles and he started to trust you, right? Because he understood oh, she's not trying to turn everything upside down just to do it.

There's actually genuine thought and care behind what she's doing. 

Diane Vlcek: Exactly.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah. Okay. Here's a good one. What misconception about HR made you want to gently correct people?

Diane Vlcek: It was this misconception that HR was only interested in following the policies and the employment laws. And that was our only agenda, to be able to, administer policy and make sure everyone was doing what they were supposed to do. Performance management is one of those policies that, people hate.

No one likes doing goal setting and giving feedback. And, that process of performance management is a really good one to look at because in the same breath that people will tell you they hate the performance management system, the very next words out of their mouth is. I don't know what my goals are.

I'm like wait a minute. Your goals are set as part of the performance management system. We just put stuff down on paper to have something to put into the system and I'm like, oh, just kill me now. That is not what the performance management system was supposed to do. 

Yeah. 

It's supposed to clarify what you're supposed to be working on.

And then actually you are supposed to give feedback because, we did employee surveys and one of the common questions that was on every year's survey was, do you understand what your goals are? And then people would grade it on a five point scale. And do you get effective feedback about your performance again, five point scale to evaluate it on.

And, we would look at the results every year and it amazed me. How many people did not know what their goals were and how many people felt that they weren't getting feedback? And I'm like I have the performance management stuff in the system that shows everyone had goals, everyone had feedback.

It was all done. So where is the disconnect? And the disconnect was, is we just put stuff in the system to satisfy you. It didn't really mean anything to us. And I'm like, what do you think we have this system for?

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Right. You're like, that's not the point. 

Diane Vlcek: This is not a paper chase. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Right. 

Diane Vlcek: This is meant for people to put some critical thinking to what do I want out of this job for the next year?

And how did I do against those things? Those are pretty basic questions and so that misconception that we just wanted to check a box to get the performance management done, it's no, understand your goals. Give feedback. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: We're helping you grow. We want you to grow.

This is part of that process. I wonder if, with some of that, like HR it used to just be, I have to sign all these papers, check all these boxes. And so there had to be a new almost mindset shift to get to a place where, oh, this is actually supposed to help equip me for my future. 

Diane Vlcek: Yeah.

How do you like that? And and then when you said to people, you should have at least one development goal for every year. They're like, oh, you don't have time for that. I'm like, you don't not have time for that. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Exactly. 

Diane Vlcek: Help me understand this. So they would put down something really cursory take an Excel class.

Oh, brother. Don't dance that out as your development goal. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Right. 

Diane Vlcek: How about something more use Excel to automate this one process. And take a class. So you build the Excel skills to do that. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah. So you can do it. Yeah. Yeah. 

Diane Vlcek: It's a meaning behind it, but yeah. So when people still think of HR as just being transactional, that it's just, a big paper chase.

That's the misconception that I get pretty demonstrative about correcting people like no. This is a business process, and by the way, this answers that concern that you whine about in the employee survey every year, that you don't know what your goals are and you don't get good feedback.

Hello? 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: You're like, we've built that in for you. 

Diane Vlcek: Who? Who knows? 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Okay. Here's another one. This'll be good to hear what you have to say. Is there one HR policy that you defended like it was your own child? 

Diane Vlcek: Oh, it was probably the policy to promote from within as a first priority. And it wasn't, we didn't have it exclusively, it wasn't a hiring embargo from the outside, but, just getting that, 'cause in truth, at the time that I came back to Marmon, S-C-H-R-O, Marmon had been on a pretty steady diet of hiring from the outside.

Just, bring in more talent from the outside. And with agreement from the senior leadership team, we instituted a policy and we also, as part of this system implementation, we could now post jobs because we didn't have any ability to do that right. 

Before the system went in. So now as part of this system that all employees had access to, we could actually post openings across all 200 companies.

And when you think about it, 200 companies being isolated, they didn't know who lived in company 199, right? 'cause they just had, they were pretty sequestered in their own company. And so when they had an open position, they would typically grab outside people because they already knew who they had.

And if they were adding staff they needed to hire from the outside. So it really was a tremendous mind shift or Marmon. To now open up and post their jobs. That was a huge thing they didn't wanna post because they're like, no, this is mine. I wanna hire who I wanna hire. And I'm like, nope, you gotta post 'em.

Every opening has to be posted. Yeah. Because we are gonna try our best to promote from within wherever possible. 

And then if there's not a valid candidate inside, then you can go to the outside. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yep. 

Diane Vlcek: And that was a hard fought. Fight. And, there were some converts people got used to it once they saw how it worked.

There were some believers, we made some believers out of 'em. But that was a pretty hard battle up till the day I retired where people still wanted to hold tight to their openings and hire who they wanted to hire rather than, opening it up to the whole company.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: And with some recent research on Gen Z, it's like they wanna work for a company, they wanna stay with the company.

And so Marmon, that's just a huge asset because I can stay within this mantras organization, and I can move from job to job within. And there's so much value in that. 

Diane Vlcek: There is, you become a known entity. You grow your skillset without having to reestablish yourself from ground zero.

You build a network of people who already know you from these other companies and you have seamless benefits. You know your benefits 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yes. 

Diane Vlcek: Stay intact and you don't start over. And it's a beautiful thing. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah. And even Marmon, like what they receive from that, right? Because now I have all this company knowledge and I'm taking it with me wherever I go inside the system.

There's just so much value there for both sides. 

Diane Vlcek: Exactly. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Okay. Can you share a moment when you felt proud of your work in hr? 

Diane Vlcek: Oh, let's see.

I think it probably was that system implementation. And believe me, we were over budget. We were past deadline. It's not like I hit all these markers. I didn't. But, there were a couple of people on the senior leadership team who really did not believe in the project.

They did not think it was necessary. By the way, those same people are mega super users of the system today. So I believe it, they became believers, but they were like, oh, why? This is such a headache. Why are we doing this? Not necessary. So even though we were over budget and we were past our deadlines, we didn't make our deadlines.

Once that system was up and running, I felt a satisfaction unlike any other.

People can now talk to each other because there was an employee directory fathom that know where you could look up people and call them or know what their email is so that you can send them a note.

Just knowing that people could connect and knowing that we were gonna be able to post jobs, that we would be able to have people develop their careers within Marmon instead of feeling I have to go outside of Marmon if I wanna move beyond this one little company that I'm a part of.

So I think just knowing that it was going to improve the lives of our employees, help us to be better leaders at every level of the company. That was a proud moment. It was worth the many scars. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Goodness. I know. 

Diane Vlcek: All along the way. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: It's amazing. That is a feat that should not be underestimated.

Diane Vlcek: Thank you. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: So few more questions for you. What feels clearer to you now that you're outside the system? 

Diane Vlcek: What feels so much clearer to me is that work is wonderful, but it's not everything. And to be able to have something outside of work that feeds your soul, that recharges you and regenerates you and helps you to have enough distance that you're not driven crazy.

I know I talked about being all in and making a full investment and a full commitment. Make no mistake. Work is like this. Think of it like a bucket of water. And while you're working, your hand is in the bucket. As soon as you are not working, you take your hand out of the bucket. The organization fills in around you, and it's as if you were never there.

So here I probably got on the order of 300 emails a day when I was CHRO of Marmon. Yep. Then when I retired on March 1st, 2023, I got zero emails and I'm like, won't someone just send me some junk mail?

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Something. 

Diane Vlcek: Because my mailbox was kept live. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah.

Diane Vlcek: For, I don't know, six months to a year. So that my predecessor would have easy access to me should she have had any questions or issues that she needed. My insight on, so I faithfully checked my email every day and you begin to think, doesn't anyone love me? Doesn't anyone miss? 

I know, right? And to go from 300 a day to nothing, it's jarring.

And it took me a little bit of time to reorient. When you go from that kind of a full on experience. To retirement. It was jarring. And it took me a couple of months to get my footing and to realize that I still had value to add. It's just gonna be in a different place and in a different way.

And I have siblings and I have friends who are still in the workplace today. So I counsel them, when they get really bogged down with the worry and care and stress of their current role. I can give that perspective and I do that, Hey, this is all gonna work out and you're sweating over nothing.

Don't worry about that. And to have to be removed from that vortex. 'cause it is a vortex that swirls and sucks you in while you're in the workplace. Yes. Now that I'm on the other side of it, I can tell people, a week from now, this isn't gonna matter. A year from now, you won't even remember this and you're getting all worked up over it here.

You know, so to have that space is really super important. So when you are all whipped up about something, I think the learning today for anyone who's in a work situation that's all consuming and driving them nuts, my counsel would be step back, take a breath. A week from now, six months from now, a year from now, what's gonna matter about this situation and to just force yourself to resist that vortex, remove yourself from it, and being retired, it's so much easier to do that now.

So much clearer to me. Is that what used to be like the end of the world to me as I was working? If I could see it then like I see it now. It would be like, why did I waste all that energy and get all whipped up about essentially nothing. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Eventually it works itself out. 

Diane Vlcek: Yeah, it does. It does.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah. Okay. Here's a good one. Is there anything that feels distinctly Boomer about how you practiced HR? 

Diane Vlcek: Oh yeah.

Guilty as charged. I was someone who felt like you need to respect your elders. They don't need to earn it. And you need to work hard. You need to suck it up buttercup, and everything's not gonna be handed to you on a silver platter. And, so I know that was in my head with everything that I did as CHRO, but of course, what would come out in my mouth would be somewhat sanitized, to say that, I understand that this is challenging for you, but here's how I'd like you to try this perspective on it.

And in the back of my head, I'd be thinking, oh, come on. You're gonna grow from this. Trust me. It'll be good for you. This continues to be a hard thing for me is, that respect. Isn't just given to elders that it has to be earned. It's still something that, I struggle with today from younger generations.

It's on the plus side, I have to tell you that in my current church we have a young professionals group, and these are 20 and 30 somethings that have a really wonderful connection with each other. And I'm part of a, I call it the Geezer Bible study. Okay. So we're all senior citizens, and we meet at noon on a Thursday because we can. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: That's right.

Diane Vlcek: So here we are our senior citizen Bible study, and the young professionals, they have a, their own bible study. One of these young professionals asked our host of the geezer Bible study if he could come and talk with us, looking for opportunities for the generations to interact with each other.

All of us geezers, were thrilled out of our minds. And he came to our group, our small group, and talking about what his vision is. He says, I just worry, that we just interact with each other. And there's so much wisdom and knowledge and experience that you all have that we'd love to tap into.

And so tomorrow, on Saturday, there's gonna be a group of 22 of us, be half geezers, half young people, and we're gonna be talking about how do we put a structure in place that works well for everyone? We don't wanna, take over the Young professionals group. We still want you to have that group, that cohort to share your experiences with. But maybe we're gonna do an intergenerational Bible study together where people can hear the different perspectives of the young, the challenges of the young and what we know and have learned in the course of our many decades of life. And, just to have that interest, it was initiated by a young person and I was so encouraged to hear that genuine desire to interact with people from two generations ago.

We're all boomers in this particular group and they're very interested in connecting, and I can't wait. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: I love that. And I think there's so many beautifully profound things that can come out of building that bridge across those generational divides and just everybody wins.

Diane Vlcek: Yes. When this young man left our group, because he stayed for about half of our study, and then he had to leave you should have seen the geezers were giddy. I said wasn't that a shot of vitamin B12 for all of us?

It was wonderful. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: I love that. And I want people to hear that like the geezers were giddy, right? It's like you, yes. You want to give what you have. It's there. It's ripe for the taking. Yeah. And if younger people would say, I want what you have, I want to learn from you, like it is there. And they can grow in so many ways.

If they just approach you step out and maybe they have to step outta their comfort zone. Because maybe they're not used to that, but there's so much they can gain that will stay with them for the rest of their lives. 

Diane Vlcek: Yeah. YouTube can only answer so many questions.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: That's right. 

Diane Vlcek: Sometimes you need flesh. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yeah. And I think too, younger generations will say they want deep connections. Here you are sitting in a room also wanting deep connections. So when we take that step toward each other, instead of going, Ugh, they're geezers, like literally, like they're geezers.

We don't wanna be around 'em. It's no, be with the geezers. They're Guinea. It's just beautiful.

Diane Vlcek: The other thing he said to our group actually was really funny. 'Cause we said what kind of a setting makes sense? And he's we're all poor and we don't know how to cook.

You guys know how to cook and you have money, so if you could feed us, that would be great.

And he said it just like that. It was that out there, and we're like, yes, we're happy to cook and feed you. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: What a smart guy. 

Diane Vlcek: He's super smart. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: That's awesome. That's even tapping into the strengths right. Of each. 

Diane Vlcek: Absolutely. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: That's great.

Diane Vlcek: And here's the secret geezers need to feel needed. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yep. 

Diane Vlcek: Rather than, put out to pasture. I'm just sitting in my La-Z-Boy recliner waiting to die.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Yep. 

Diane Vlcek: It is so invigorating and rejuvenating to those of us who are in our senior years, to know that. People are interested in what we've learned and people are, wanting to know what advice we have to offer that might be helpful to them. They might avoid a few potholes in life.

And it's all good. Like you said, there's so much goodness on every level. Every way you turn this diamond, there's a new facet it's gonna shine through. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: That's right. It's just rich. It's so rich. Okay. Is there anything else you wanna add or anything that you're like, I want people to know this?

Diane Vlcek: Oh boy. That it's worth it. It's worth it to make these deep connections with people, especially if they are your family. To have that depth of connection is all the difference. Yeah. You get hurt sometimes. Hello.

That's how you know you're alive. So even though you might feel like you're making yourself vulnerable it's so worth it. The dividends paid on that investment will not be earned any other way. So make the investment, go deep, make these connections and they will serve you throughout your life.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: And so really what I hear you saying is build community. 

Diane Vlcek: Yeah. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: Do life with other people. Yeah. Wherever you are, whatever you're doing. 

Diane Vlcek: Because I'll tell you what, when you get to these senior years, that ability to make those connections is literally what keeps you alive and strong. It is when you feel isolated and disconnected that you start to shrivel and.

That's not a good place to be. So build that ability early, take it with you into your golden years. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: I love that too, because I think so many people in younger generations they do feel really lonely. And what you're saying is just keep stepping out there, keep building relationships, even if sometimes it hurts because it is gonna hurt sometimes.

But the beauty on the other side of that is worth it. And there's gold that you'll take with you. 

Diane Vlcek: It is, one of the things that grieves me is to hear of all of the anxiety that exists in our young people especially.

Not to say that I'm never anxious about things. I get anxious about things too, but, the chronic, continuous, never ending anxiety that is so sad to me. And I would just love to rip that anxiety out of existence. And part of the way you do that is to make connections with people who can pull you up. Not not people who are going to continue that anxiety downward spiral, but, find someone who doesn't suffer quite that same way.

Make that deep connection. And I think that will begin to break that cycle of anxiety that just eats away at the soul of our young people.

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: And so inviting people along on the journey with you. 

Diane Vlcek: Yep. Absolutely. It's so worth it. 

Dr. Katherine Jeffery: And hearing it straight from someone who has done that very thing.

And I know from working with many of the people that have worked for you and with you, that you have been a gift to so many and to me.

I could just talk to you all day. Literally. I'm like, I have a thousand more questions I could ask you.

I just so appreciate your wisdom. I'm soaking it in. I hope that our listeners soak it in. Just to wrap us up, like every generation enters HR under different conditions, right? You got different labor markets, you have different expectations, different leadership norms, which you obviously experienced throughout your career.

And Boomers were a generation who built trust through steadiness, and they earn credibility. Like you heard Diane say this leaders deserve respect and they're there for a reason. Okay, our next episode is gonna be looking at HR through the eyes of Gen X. And this was a generation that was shaped by restructuring and skepticism.

So get ready to see what shifts. So this has been the GenShift. Thank you for joining us today.