Episode 3: Gen Z & the Trades

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Marissa Gratz

Rachel Bagda

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Katherine Jeffery: the podcast where we explore how different generations work, live, and learn together, and how understanding those differences can make us better teammates, leaders, and humans. I'm Catherine Jeffrey, a generational strategist and workplace trainer who's been helping teams bridge generational divides for over a decade.

Before we jump into today's conversation, let's set the stage and talk about the Zillennials. Those born roughly between 1990 and 2000, who grew up right on that cusp of both Zillennials and Gen Z. Now, many of you are aware of who the xenials are. That word is spelled with an X, ends with enal. They are on the cusp of Gen X and Zillennial.

They're half Gen X, half Zillennial. They grew up still playing outside. They still wrote letters home from summer camp, and their favorite video game was the Oregon Trail. Many elder Zillennials I meet are so excited to know that they have their own cohort because they just don't feel like they truly belong in the Zillennial generation.

So today we're gonna focus on those who are on the cusp of Millennial and Gen Z. Now, who is this generation? The Zillennials remember life before smartphones, but they also came of age with social media. They saw the tail end of dial up internet and the rise of TikTok. They've lived through 9/11, the 2008 recession, and the pandemic all before turning 30.

What shapes their worldview? They're pragmatic but adaptable. Many grew up in the shadow of economic uncertainty and entered adulthood during rapid technological change that's made this cohort cautious and incredibly innovative. What do they want at work? They tend to value stability like the Zillennials, but they also want flexibility and authenticity like Gen Z.

They appreciate career growth, but they want it without sacrificing mental health or personal values. Common stereotypes they face. People sometimes say they're hard to read. To Zillennial to be digital natives, but to Gen Z, to buy into traditional career paths. Others see them as indecisive or caught between two very different worlds.

So today we're asking what it's really like to live in that in-between liminal space. How does it shape their identity, relationships, and work? And is being caught in the middle, actually a hidden strength. 

So today I'm joined by Rachel Bagda and Marissa Gratz, two Zillennials who know this space firsthand.

So you two, I'm so excited to have you on the show. You both just touched me so much when I met you. I've been waiting to do this episode because I think a lot of people don't even know that your cohort actually exists. And so I'm excited to have you unpack that for all of us today.

Let's start with where you grew up, what you're actually doing now. And what's one thing that feels very Zillennial about you? And one thing that also feels very Gen Z. 

Marissa Gratz: I know I speak for Rachel and I say thank you so much for having us on this podcast. We're super excited to be here.

I know we loved when you came to our office and we fought hard for that Zillennial area we talked about. We, that's right. Advocated for it. But I am from like outside the Philadelphia area, so the suburbs. I grew up there, went to school there, and then I went to Syracuse for college for my undergrad, and then went to University of Delaware for my masters.

And then something that you're saying was funny is if you look at my resume, I have worked a bunch of different industries and jobs. So it's funny that you say sometimes you feel caught in the middle because I think that's definitely true for me. I've worked in corporate retail, I've worked in talent acquisition, I've worked in healthcare, and now I'm working back in healthcare again.

But my role at Orangetheory as I'm on growth marketing coordinator here, so I'm stepping into what Rachel. Was doing before. So now I'm in her role and she's moved up. And I like to say that she's my boss because she taught me everything. A lot of stuff that I've known. But yeah, I love working here.

I would say this is a very fun company to work for. A lot of great culture here. The work, like you said, is you get your work done. And maybe that's the management style that we have on our team. 'cause we work on the same team together, but it's very I'm not gonna be breathing down your neck, which I think works very well for both of us.

You gotta get your work done. So if you get it done, that's fine. If you don't, we're gonna have a problem.

Katherine Jeffery: I have a couple clarifying questions for you.

So your major in college was what? 

Marissa Gratz: Public health. I originally wanted to be a registered dietician. Yeah. Which is, I'm doing something similar to in the health space, which is great. But I became super obsessed with health and wellness. When I went to school, started like working out, started eating really well, and I was like, oh, I'd love to help other people feel this way as well.

But then I realized, eh, it just wasn't for me and too much science, too much everything. I'd have to go the school for. It was a lot. And then I went to Delaware to get my master's in communication, okay. I'm a little bit of both now in the marketing space and then also in the health and wellness space too.

Katherine Jeffery: Yeah. And you're doing it at Orangetheory, so you're still able to live out your passion. But do it in a way that feels good for you. 

Marissa Gratz: Exactly. 

Katherine Jeffery: Yeah. And then Marissa, before we go to Rachel, what is one thing that feels very Zillennial about you? And one thing that feels very Gen Z. 

Marissa Gratz: Interesting.

Okay. I think something that feels very Zillennial for me, and I may be speaking out of turn for Zillennials, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel very late to trends. I feel like I like them after they've happened already. Oh, butter yellow is like super in a month ago, and then I'm just discovering butter yellow now and I'm obsessed with it and I buy things that are butter yellow.

And then people are like, no that's not it anymore. So I feel like I'm a little late. I like don't catch it right away. Or I see on TikTok something and I'm like, oh, that's really cool. And you're like, no, that trend happened literally a month ago. That's over with now.

And I'm like, but I really like it right now, so I'm gonna participate. So maybe I think that's a little bit of a Zillennial thing that I do. I love that. Yeah. Gen Z, something that I do, I take. My time off very seriously. So I am a work hard, play hard kind of mentality. A lot of people, especially I, again, I don't wanna generalize, but like older generations, you come to work, you do your work and you take your minimal time off.

But if I have something that I need to do where I need a rest and recovery day, I'm going to take that because it's important for my job, my life, my, mental health. I don't live to work. That's not my goal of living on this planet. like this job and it helps me with an income and I learn a lot of new things, but I don't come here and work from 8:00 AM till midnight because it's just not sustainable in life.

Taking that time off and recovery is super important for everyone. But that's something I think that would be generalized in the Gen Z category. 

Katherine Jeffery: Yeah, I love that. So would you say rather than living to work, which is what the boomers did, that you work to live? 

Marissa Gratz: Yeah. It's important to enjoy your job a little bit if you can.

I think it makes life better for you since you are at your job a lot of the time. But I definitely think that I have passions and things outside of work that are important to me and other goals that I want to attain. Having a job helps me attain those, but it's not the reason why I was born.

Katherine Jeffery: So well said. That's really good. All right, Rachel, your turn. Do you remember the questions? 

Rachel Bagda: I think so, yes. Okay. So I grew up in a suburb outside of Fort Lauderdale.

I'm from south Florida. I went to college in Orlando and then I came back down here to South Florida. I am a South Florida girl through and through what I do now. So I am a growth marketing manager on the marketing team with Marissa Orangetheory. my undergraduate degree is in business administration.

I like working here a lot. I think to echo something that Marissa said, this office and this company perfectly blends, those two pieces of being a Zillennial, we do take our work really seriously and everybody does have a passion to do well and see the company succeed.

But at the same time, we do have a great culture that allows for flexibility and even the work hard, play hard outside of work. Like I think our work allows for us to do that too. We have fitness classes during the day and so we get up mid work day and go do a fitness class.

Yes. That's amazing. Yeah, amazing. Like I would not trade it for anything. So we have a beautiful marriage of those two, facets of who we are as people. Something very Zillennial about me is I care a lot. I care about making people proud. And then on the other end , I care so much about potentially disappointing people like my parents, my boss, my coworkers. I have to work hard to make all them proud. They have this image of me and I have to uphold that image and I have to do my work. I'm super type A, so I have to be organized if someone asks for something, like I need to know where that is, and I have to have it for them at a moment's notice.

 I care so deeply, which is Millennial. I have an older sister who's definitely Millennial and I have a little sister who's definitely Gen Z. So I think I see too like Marissa speaking about not generalizing, like I see these traits in them. So I think caring so much is not necessarily always a Gen Z trait.

Something super Gen Z about me is I am so into pop culture. Oh my gosh. And social media. she is Chronically online. Chronically online. Like my time is embarrassing. I know All the trends I have to teach Marissa about them. 

Katherine Jeffery: Did you tell her about butter yellow?

Rachel Bagda: Yeah. Yeah. I have to keep up to date. Like I know the trending sounds that happen, the funny memes that pop up, the reality television shows, I am all over it. I had to have been born in the 21st century because I am so on social media. It's embarrassing.

Katherine Jeffery: Excellent. So do you do this 'cause people are wondering older generation, are you doing this during work or are you doing this after work? 

Rachel Bagda: After work for sure. I come home and plop on my bed and then I start scrolling. And if once I get stuck in oh my gosh, I'm in a time warp and time goes by so fast.

As I'm leaving a meeting, I'll pop in New York Times games. The New York Times games? Yeah. Oh, the New York Times games, which is very Millennial of us. Like the wordle and connections. Like we're still playing those. Love that here.

Orangetheory. 

Marissa Gratz: Oh my god. The marketing team is did you do wordle yet? what? Get it in. 

Rachel Bagda: Yeah. We Check in between your brain. It's good for you. Yeah. Yeah. It's not social media. 

Katherine Jeffery: It is good for you. And I think a lot of older generations do those 'cause it keeps your brain fresh. And so it's awesome that you all are doing this at a younger age. One thing, do you guys mind saying your age? Because that way it'll give people some context. Sure. I'm 28 so that was Rachel and Marissa. I'm 29.

Marissa Gratz: You say that as if it's a bad thing. It's just, I don't know. I feel like I'm 21. I feel like people are like, how do you do this? And I'm like, I don't know. I'm baby age right now. 

Katherine Jeffery: You're only as old as you feel. And you'll believe that more as you get older. All right, you mentioned technology, right?

What'd you say? Chronically scrolling or what? Online. Yeah, chronically online. So think about your childhood. What role did technology actually play in your childhood and do you both feel more nostalgic for a pres smartphone world or more at home in today's hyper connected culture?

And you may have different answers for that. 

Marissa Gratz: I feel like we might actually have different answers for that. Do you wanna go since I went first, last time? 

Rachel Bagda: Sure. So growing up, we had the family computer that every house in the nineties had. So there's the family computer in the office, and I'm one of four children.

We're all from the oldest, the youngest there's a six year span. So we're all really close in age and we're all constantly fighting over the computer. And then my mom would have to set a timer when a, your turn was up. So true. And then you'd have to switch. That was totally where cell phones weren't really a thing.

They existed, but not the way they do now. My parents had flip phones, or like the Nokia, little bar phone. 

Katherine Jeffery: That heavy thing. Yeah. 

Rachel Bagda: Yeah. So cell phones were used to make phone calls, that's really all it was. I played a ton of CD rom computer games.

We had a closet next to the office. They'd come in, these big cardboard boxes with the little disc and you'd plop it in. So it was very much technology was like entertainment. And then cell phones were purely for making communication, just for calling. I remember a super exciting Friday night was opening the paint app on the Windows PC and drawing on paint.

That was so fun. Or the little pinball game that was built in the Windows pinball. So it was really just a form of entertainment and it was not about connectivity necessarily. There really was no connectivity. And then when I got to, I don't know what age I was I wanna say middle school, I could be wrong, was when a IM like instant messenger came on the scene.

So you would add your friends by username and I would say that was probably like the beginning of social texting. Yes. You could see when your friends were online, but it was still not this, constant connectivity because when you logged off your little a IM status would go to unavailable.

Yeah. And then you would walk away, like when you were done on the computer, right? Yeah. You had a door closing and then you were done, the door closed. Yeah. And you could set like away messages and you could say going out to play be back soon. So it was not this constant state, you couldn't reach people all the time.

I remember that very vividly I'd say. And this seems very hypocritical as much as I'm chronically online and I'm so plugged into all these pop culture moments, I sometimes feel so nostalgic and long for a time where people can't reach me. I guess I could still do this today, but expectations are just different.

I miss when you would call your friends home number and their mom would answer and you would say is so and so available to play? Can you know yes. Now you can talk to anyone at any moment of the day. So super different. I remember when my mom got the first iPhone and that was a phone that went on the internet and not the way that the flip phones, you would accidentally press the internet button, but you got charged per minute.

You had to quickly close it. 'cause the phone bill would come and you'd get in so much trouble. Not like that, but like a phone that was made for, it was a computer, it was like made to operate as a computer and that was so wild. And a phone without buttons, like a phone without a keyboard was so crazy.

 it was all touchscreen that was nuts for the time. I'm sure everyone can probably agree, the span of our childhood to now like the rapid, production and increase in technological advancements is crazy.

I don't think there's really ever been a point. I'm not a historian. I could be standing so wrong right now. shocking. I know, but I just don't think there's ever been like rapid increases and advances like there has been over the last 30 years. Like we went from car phones to computers in your pocket.

it is really so crazy. And our formidable years happening, through the rise of social media also was so crazy. Yeah. A time when you couldn't reach people to a time where you knew what everybody was doing every moment of the day. And we watched that and we were old enough to recognize the difference.

So that was super crazy. 

Katherine Jeffery: That was great. So it sounds like at some point you're talking about you missed the days of when there were just natural boundaries in place, right? Yeah. And there wasn't this constant pull, Some of the research out there says that Gen Z would actually prefer not to have social media, but they have social media. Because if you don't have social media, then you're left out, right? But if the world would get rid of it, Gen Z would actually be very okay with that.

How do you two feel about that? 

Marissa Gratz: Yeah, I agree with it. Social media can be great, but I think it's also terrible for your mental health. And I know it's terrible for mine. When I scroll forever on TikTok or look at what everyone's doing on Instagram. I was talking to my friend about this other day.

I see so many engagement announcements and baby announcements and people going on these crazy vacations. And obviously everyone's life is different when you put it on a screen. Yes. But it definitely makes me feel some type of a way and makes me feel worse about myself when I'm living a quieter life or, going to work and then coming home or whatever.

But it definitely affects my mental health. It affects if I'm on late and I need to go to sleep, it affects that way. So I agree. I think it would be better without it. I've gotten rid of a few different apps just because I haven't used them anymore, . Which ones? Which ones did you get rid of?

Snapchat? 100% I got rid of, I never got into Snapchat. Growing up I thought it was like a weird app, honestly. And I think it was weird that you could send photos to people and then it would disappear and you could add random people. 

Rachel Bagda: Weren't we talking about this? That yeah, I think that's another not to go up on a tangent, but that is also such a, stark line between Millennial and Gen Z.

The idea of putting your face on the internet for strangers, , not your friends. 'cause we were MySpace, we were Facebook where you added people as a friend and then you'd post updates for your friends. Even though it was the internet, it was very much like you set who you wanted to see and the boundaries were still pretty clear at that point.

And then I was never on musically, but like musically, which evolved to TikTok, like the concept of putting your face on the internet for anybody to see you don't control who sees it on TikTok. The whole, it's crazy. Like point of TikTok is the more people that see it, the better your video does.

That was such a wild concept for me. Like I could not fathom like, you're gonna record yourself recording yourself and putting it on Facebook was like one thing, and that was even a little bit like whatever. And then you don't set boundaries. You don't set limitations.

Anybody in the world could see it. I don't get this. This is so bizarre. This is so weird. This has to be unsafe.

Katherine Jeffery: Oh yeah. So how old were you two when? MySpace. 

Rachel Bagda: MySpace. I at least call like the very tail end of MySpace.

Marissa Gratz: I never had space. I only had Facebook and I was only allowed to get Facebook in middle school. 

Katherine Jeffery: Because that's a really significant transition that you talked about, right? Yeah. So younger Gen Z'ers, there's not those boundaries, 

Rachel Bagda: they don't know, social media where you can choose who sees it. I remember my sister when Snapchat was super big. My sister their thing was like, add me on snap. That was like so crazy. So they would me strangers, for us, even now to this day, 'cause Snapchat it's not as big as it was at its peak, but you'd follow people on Instagram or in college for us, like Facebook was still huge in college.

It was like how you got in touch with everybody. Yeah. So you'd meet people and you would add them on Facebook. But again, like Marissa said, like the idea of adding strangers. Like at this point these people are still strangers. Like you just met them, whether they're in your sorority or you meet them at a club or like whatever it is.

Like they're still strangers. the concept of adding them on a social media platform whose only purpose is to send photos of yourself to someone is so bizarre now. I get it. 'cause I used it with my friends. we were a big Snapchat friend group, but it's still so bizarre. And like you're gonna add strangers, they put their Snapchat in their Instagram bio, which is publicly viewable. Even if you're private, everyone can see your bio. So they would literally put in their Instagram by add me on Snap with their little username. And I'm like, this is weird. You're gonna send selfies to a stranger. 

Marissa Gratz: Yeah. 

Rachel Bagda: As like a forward facing camera selfie. That's crazy.

Marissa Gratz: Yeah. 

Rachel Bagda: Sorry I interrupted you. 

Marissa Gratz: No, you're fine. I was gonna say something that I think maybe makes me more of a Millennial in the sense is that when you are an influencer or you put your life out on social media Yeah. Or fans and you're following, you can't be private at all. So if they find out something that you didn't share with them, like you're either gonna be canceled or you're gonna have a lot of backlash from it.

So something that's I don't understand is that there's no privacy really anymore. If you wanna post a funny video and it takes off and then you get a following and then you went on vacation and didn't vlog it and then your fans are all so mad at you now and you're losing followers and then it like gets to your head.

It's just like a weird cycle to me. And also the amount of bullying, like cyber bullying that's so rampant. 

Katherine Jeffery: It's always been around since we were like, talk about that a little bit marsa. 

Marissa Gratz: Sure. 

Katherine Jeffery: I think older generations, like a lot of people struggle with the amount of anxiety that your generation and younger reports. Cyber bullying is something we don't really understand. So can you unpack that for us? 

Marissa Gratz: Yeah. in today's world, it's huge. It's everywhere. People are so comfortable saying the absolute grossest, meanest things they could possibly think of to a stranger or to someone that they don't know that's going through something.

And it's so appalling to me. I always say to Rachel, I'm like, I could literally never be an influencer or post something online 'cause the one thing someone's gonna say something about my body and it's gonna send me off the deep end and I'm gonna be like, I can't do this. Yeah. I don't have the thick enough skin for it.

And these like teeny bopper that are also posting on TikTok, I don't think have thick enough skin for it either. But I would say it started I remember, what's that app where you could put anonymous questions? Was it Yik Yak? Oh, Yik Yak. Yeah. Yeah. So we had or Ask Fm. I think we had too, we did have them.

So we did have a little bit of bullying ways that you could do it and people would ask like some mean things about people in your school or whatever. And you could figure out who it was, or you could tell if someone was trying to target somebody. So we did have a little bit of cyber bullying that way.

I would say on a IM you could also someone could change like their name or something and start like bullying you on there too, but you could also leave the chat or whatever. So I can't say that I've personally been cyber bullied actually, no. I have, when I went to college, and that was when there was, what was the Greek one?

Greek rank. Greek rank where this was like for sororities and attorneys where they would write questions and they would. Put people's names and the questions may like, oh, this girl in whatever house is ugly. So mean, like for no reason, whatsoever. So that's the only point where I can say I've been like cyber bullying, but I would say it's just it has not stopped.

If anything, it's just increased by a thousand percent and you can give your take on it too. Yeah. 

Rachel Bagda: All those things you referenced that we grew up with were still there was a point that you could still be anonymous, so yik Yak was anonymous. Ask FM was anonymous. So people I think said mean things and did mean things, but nobody knew it was you.

Marissa Gratz: Yeah. 

Rachel Bagda: So people started getting comfortable, being mean on the internet behind a curtain. Yeah. Yeah. Now people are comfortable being mean on the internet when their name is attached to it.

Katherine Jeffery: I know people will talk about keyboard warriors or whatever, maybe it's because What does that mean?

Explain that. 

Rachel Bagda: Just saying things online behind a screen that you wouldn't necessarily say in person to that. Okay. Face to somebody. So I don't know where it comes from. I don't know why we've gotten to this point, but people are just, like Marissa said, so comfortable saying terrible things and they don't even need to be anonymous anymore.

Like they just say it. And in today's day and age where you can find almost anything out about someone, if I had a first and last name, I could find somebody's whole life story. Like it's really not difficult to do that, but people just seem to not care. Also maybe with the rise of influencers and parasocial relationships have changed it too because. People feel like they know people via the internet and they don't know them, right? You don't know that person. Like reality, TV stars, influencers. I'd say they're all in the same bucket.

Yes, like Marissa mentioned, there's really not a lot of privacy. So they do share a lot about their lives on social media. And you probably do know a lot about what that person wants you to know about them, but you don't know them. That's not your friend. That's not somebody, you can't say hurtful things to someone.

I say you can't you shouldn't, people do. You shouldn't say things to someone that you really don't know whether they're hurtful or not hurtful. we have a weird dynamic now in younger generations of that parasocial relationship.

Like you watch these people, you feel like you know everything about them. So you really genuinely believe you're friends with them. 

Marissa Gratz: Yeah. this is why I want to go back to a time free all to bring it all. When I thought my hit clips was the coolest thing in the world to listen to my music. I do miss that.

Yeah. 

Katherine Jeffery: Yeah. There's no way to stop it. You're just vulnerable if you put yourself out there online. 

Marissa Gratz: Yeah. And it's ever evolving. Rachel, I can probably say that she has too, but I've fallen victim to I've posted something on Instagram and it didn't get enough quote unquote traction, so I had to delete it because I wasn't getting enough likes and I was like, wait, why is this important to my life that I like my photo on Instagram?

Katherine Jeffery: Yes, but good for you for recognizing that. Like that dopamine hit, right? Yeah. 

Marissa Gratz: I think it was definitely that like college era time. I wanted to be cool, I wanted to be popular. I wanted people see me having a good time at school where it's oh, if I'm just having a good time, I don't have to like worry about what other people are thinking.

Katherine Jeffery: Yes. That's so mature of you. 

Marissa Gratz: Oh, thank you. That's gonna go straight to the noggin. 

Katherine Jeffery: Good. We'll give you some positive reinforcement in the real world in real time.

Generational differences show up everywhere in workplaces, classrooms, and even around the dinner table. Too often they lead to frustration instead of connection. That's why I created the GenShift dialogue deck with thoughtful questions for every generation traditionalist. Boomers, Gen X Millennials, Gen Z and Gen Alpha.

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Katherine Jeffery: So let's shift to the work environment just a little bit. One question I have to ask is around the Gen Xers in your workplace.

One of the things we talked about when I was at Orangetheory is for Gen Z, telling is yelling, And Gen X is often told they're really bossy, they're too direct. And Xers are like, I'm just trying to tell 'em what to do. To make things happen in the workplace. They're trying to be efficient.

How would you respond to a Gen Xer who's like really, I'm not trying to be bossy, I'm just trying to be efficient. What could they do differently? 

Marissa Gratz: I wanna give Rachel like big props for this one, because I think we're different in the sense because she does not let anything get to her or bother her.

So if someone says something to her in a specific way that I take as like rude, condescending, direct, she's like it, it is what it is. It's work. I'll get it done, whatever. Could they have spoken to me a different way? Sure. So I think in that sense she is more Millennial and just gets in is like work is work and they don't mean it in a personal way.

I'm probably a little bit more Gen Z in that sense where I'm like, that was like rude and I didn't appreciate the way that they just spoke to me. So yeah, I wanted to put that out there first because I think the way we take things, I'm probably a little bit more sensitive, so I would prefer maybe a more gentle approach than Hey, can you do this for me by end of the day?

And Rachel's yeah, got it on it. So what would that gentle approach look like? 

Katherine Jeffery: Great question. If I come in, I'm like, Marissa, I need this by five o'clock. Get it done. 

Marissa Gratz: Yeah. to me I'd be so stressed out by that. That would gimme so much anxiety because I get nervous, which is something that I need to obviously work on within myself to ask follow up questions because I'm like, they just want me to get it done.

If I'm asking follow-up questions, I'm taking too much time to even ask that. Like I should just know. So I feel stupid I guess in a sense for wanting to ask those follow-up questions. But I've tried to be better and be like, okay, like what are you looking for? What do you need for me?

Because sometimes I do think when you are being told I need this by end of day, can you do this for me? And I think we can both agree to this. We don't really know what someone's talking about sometimes. So it's helpful to get a little bit more context there when they just expect us to know the context.

Katherine Jeffery: So I want every listener to hear that, right? First I want you to hear how self-reflective they are. They're immediately as we're telling them, get this done. they're saying, okay, but what does that mean? I wanna do this right? I want to be productive. I wanna do the right thing at work.

And I think sometimes maybe that lack or that hesitation or even asking questions is considered disrespectful. Like I told you what to do, get it done. But I'm not hearing that from you at all. You're actually saying, no, I wanna get it right. And so I'm pausing , to self-reflect on what's going on in me.

And then to ask the questions that are gonna help us all be successful as a team. 

Marissa Gratz: Yes, I definitely don't want to do it wrong or make a mistake. It's a never ending circle. It's like I'm afraid to ask follow up questions. I'm afraid to make mistakes and disappoint, but I also need to ask those questions so that I don't make those mistakes.

Rachel Bagda: It could just be me. I don't know. But I think a lot of us.

Marissa Gratz: Feel that way. Yeah. I think some of us are more sensitive maybe in this generational gap here. But yeah, I think for her it's it slides right off of her. And for me, I'm like, I need to go to the bathroom, have a quick five minute cry, and then I'll come back and do it.

Rachel Bagda: That's so funny. I'd say that I'm pretty good at just letting it roll off my back. Maybe it's cause I grew up in such a loud house with so many people or competitive sports growing up. I'm pretty good at taking, I played sports May, maybe we just played them differently, maybe like just taking it for what it is.

But I'm also hyper aware of then how I talk to people. cause I'm okay taking it like I'm okay. you can talk to me in a matter of fact tone, but, and I can be like, yep, they didn't mean it with any poor intentions.

They're just saying what they need. Let me just do it. But I don't ever want to be the person speaking in that tone that makes someone feel that way. So I am hyper aware of hurting someone's feelings maybe, or being too direct or coming across as like bossy. So you can be bossy to me, but I don't want you to think that I'm bossy back.

Katherine Jeffery: You talked about how that tone makes you feel. I think that's important too for Gen Xers. How does our directness and just we're moving really fast, right? We just wanna make things happen. We're juggling a lot of things. How does that tone make you feel? 

Marissa Gratz: Since I'm a very extroverted light, make jokes at the office kind of gal. That's the tone and culture and stuff that I look for, which is honestly present at Orangetheory.

But when I don't get that I take it as colder when it really is not personal at all. It's just like they're here to do a job and they need something done for me, but I'm getting this kind of whiff that oh, I've done something wrong already even though I haven't done anything yet.

Yes. So it makes me like spiral I would say.

Rachel Bagda: I don't know that. I just had a thought as you were talking. Oh. I think the way that Gen X and the older generations live to work, work means so much and it's so important. Marissa's like minimal vacation.

You're not, you're staying late. Every day if you need to. It doesn't matter. Whereas we're more inclined to, appreciate that work-life balance and we work because it affords us the luxury to live the life that we wanna live. I think that in and of itself, like we're people first and we are here to do a job.

So when we're approached with work, we wanna be approached as people first. The work doesn't have to come first. You don't need to just like shout demands at me. I'm still a person and I'm here to get this job done and I'm gonna do it as well as I absolutely possibly can, but I'm also still a person.

So I don't wanna be shouted demands at. Yelling is telling . You can still approach me in a human to human way and still get your point across in the same breath. I feel like that's like where it all comes back to.

Marissa Gratz: Yeah. 

Rachel Bagda: Ask me how my weekend was first, or like how are you, something.

Marissa Gratz: And it usually, I would say, this is a great company. People do that. We care about each other's lives and what's going on in them, which is awesome and nice and some places you don't get that. And obviously if we were doctors at a hospital, this would not be the kind of life balance we're talking about.

But I think it's, obviously it's not life or death. It's not life or death. We're not launching rockets. We work in marketing for a fitness company and I think that's something that Rachel and I and our generation truly believe in is like when that clock hits five, obviously there's sometimes when we stay later when things are important, but that's our time to clock out.

Physically, mentally, emotionally clock is off. Yeah. We don't answer unless obviously it's like a dire situation, but like we don't answer emails, we don't answer teams messages, which we do often get after hours. Which is fine.

I think it's fine for us 'cause we're not expected to answer those. But if we were, I think that would be more of a problem for me. But since, maybe people like to work late and stuff like that and they send it so they can just get it off their plate, but we're not expected to answer those.

At five I'm definitely no emails, no Teams, nothing like that after the end of the day. 

Katherine Jeffery: So you all as a culture have clear expectations around when you need to communicate. So if as a Gen Xer, I'm like, I need to go to sleep, I gotta get this outta my head, I can send that to you. You don't have to respond in that way.

Rachel Bagda: Yeah, sometimes though, amongst ourselves. Marissa would be, oh my, look, who Teams me at nine o'clock last night? Why would they send that? And then I can be like I'm sure they just didn't wanna forget, but they weren't expecting you to answer. They didn't need you to answer.

They just wanted to get it out before they forgot. We both help each other Yeah. With those things. Yeah. 

Katherine Jeffery: You're translating across the generational divide. You're saying, no. Let's look at this from their perspective. Even though this is how it's making us feel, that's probably not their intent. That's actually really mature and wise of you. And it makes you incredibly valuable in the workplace because you're able to not just see it through your own filter in your own lens, but you're able to see beyond and it's actually emotional intelligence when we come right down to it, which is what makes you really successful in life.

Marissa Gratz: I said Rachel has that. I don't we've definitely, we've taken like personality tests before and like my first reaction to everything is emotion. I lead with emotion and I think hers is more rationale, so that side of the brain. I guess we're a good yin and yang for each other.

Yeah. We balance each other. 

Katherine Jeffery: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. We need both . One's definitely not more important than the other. Agreed. do you all find yourselves being translators between Millennial and Gen Z? And can you think of a time where maybe being on that cusp of those two generations has either helped you or actually maybe even hurt you?

Marissa Gratz: A colleague of ours who is a Gen Zer also leads very heavily with emotion when it comes to leadership roles and responsibilities and talking to leadership. We try and help see from both sides of the scenario to help give our insight and perspective on it. And I think it helps too. I do see it from both. I can understand it, I can understand leadership, not understanding the colleague, not understanding where leadership is coming from. 'cause they have a job to do and they need things to get done.

So I think giving our perspective on both is helpful for that colleague. When, I often lead with emotions, so I understand it a lot. I leave with empathy and I'm like, I get you. I understand it. That's so frustrating. But then I try and give a little bit of a spin of maybe this is how they meant it when they were talking to you.

So I think it's helpful when we're on the cusp of Millennial and Gen Z for that aspect. Because I understand both sides. Yeah. Heartedly. 

Katherine Jeffery: So well said. You two are so articulate. Thank you. 

Rachel Bagda: Thank you. You're giving us too many compliments. 

Katherine Jeffery: No, you really, you're amazing. 

Rachel Bagda: I thought of the exact same scenario. It's interesting to sit in the middle like Marissa said, and see both sides of it. And I think this person does feel like they can confide in us, which means a lot that we, give off. We are a safe space.

Like you can confide in us. So I think that does make us feel good that like people do feel like they can do that.

I think you asked can it get you in hot water? Sometimes it's just tough to try to stay mindful of yes, you wanna lead with empathy for sure, and you wanna see their point of view, but you don't wanna get dragged down into it because then it puts you in the middle, if that makes sense.

And then rather being a translator now you're part of the drama. I was gonna say it can get dramatic, it can get very dramatic. So you want to be in the middle and you want to help translate and say I don't think they meant it that way. I think what they were trying to say was, blah, blah, blah.

I think it just came off a little straightforward. But misery loves company. And you don't wanna start feeding into it. 'cause then you get wrapped up into it. Yeah. And it can go both ways, right? Like you can also feel that way from maybe the Gen Z people who are more inclined to lead with emotion.

But then at the same time, with the Millennial older generation, where you start to feel like, yeah, why are they being so emotional? They're being too emotional about this. They need to just get their work done. You also don't wanna fall too heavily that way.

So it's like a fine line of trying to skate the middle and be the unbiased person who can say I think what they really meant to say was, blah, blah, blah. It just came off a little straightforward. And then on the reverse, like saying you have to understand this person put a lot of work into this project and they felt really proud of it.

So when the critiques were harsh, like it hurt their feelings. Being able to do both. 

Katherine Jeffery: Yeah. So being a Zillennial offers a lot of value in the workforce today because you're building a bridge that is so necessary, even the Millennials will say, I hear older generations say I'll just put my Millennials in charge of my Gen Zs and everything will be fine.

And the Millennials are like, no, they're from another planet. They don't get Gen Z either. And so where you all sit is just crucial for helping people understand different perspectives. And you're doing a lot of behind the scenes work and creating that safe space where younger generations, but also helping older generations not maybe feel attacked by younger generations.

Good work, ladies, and you're like, yes, hopefully. It's so important. I can't tell you how many times I hear stories like this, what you're doing is beyond valuable. You can't even really quantify how important that work is, and I think we often overlook it.

The behind the scenes conversations that people have because they are trying to collaborate well together.

All right so we'll start to wrap it up here. If you could give one piece of advice to Millennials about Gen Z. What would it be?

Marissa Gratz: I think, and I'm gonna say her name because. I think she's great and she's also one of our very good friends, but someone on our team, Mac she's a Gen Zer and sometimes I think that she is more mature and emotionally mature, such a great work ethic, way more than I am sometimes. And when I go to her with my problems, she'll bring me back down to Earth.

So I think like realizing that Gen Z has a lot to offer to Millennials as well, and they're not just complainers, lazy, and don't wanna work. Like she is such a hard worker. She will work past five sometimes I'm like, you hadn't out here with me or what? Like it's 5:01, it's time to leave.

But she is emotionally mature and I feel like she's taught me a lot about, the importance of Gen Z and how I used to be like, ugh, like I don't wanna be associated with Gen Z. But now I'm like, no, there's so many qualities that I have that I see in her that I need to explore more and that I don't realize are good qualities about myself.

There's a lot of negative connotation around Gen Z and we should flip that script a little bit. 

Katherine Jeffery: That's right. That's why I hope everyone hears this podcast. 

Marissa Gratz: Yeah. Everyone listening. 

Katherine Jeffery: Rachel, maybe you wanna answer this one. What is one thing you would say to Gen Z about Millennials?

Rachel Bagda: We're not cringe. I think that Millennials are just as anxiety ridden as Gen Z.

They also just want to make people proud and get their work done. They do care a lot. This is not one articulate thought, but it's okay. It'll keep rolling out. Yeah. 

Marissa Gratz: While she's thinking. I was saying before, I feel like I don't know why, and this might be a notion in my brain that Gen Zers think that Millennials are losers , weird, or just not cool anymore. And to Rachel's point, she's she knows every single trend.

She's chronically online, she knows all of the what's happening in the world and everything like that. So like we're right there. Most are right there with Gen Zs and we like staying up to date and hip being on TikTok and stuff. And I think they think that we're just sitting at home being like, ow, Gen Z they're always on their phones, scrolling or being an influencer and it's no, we can coexist and also talk about current events and also what's going on in pop culture.

So I think we're not as weird 

Rachel Bagda: As they think that we're yeah, no. I totally get what you're saying.

It's very easy to be like they just don't get it. They don't understand social media. They don't know the trends. 

Marissa Gratz: Yeah. 

Rachel Bagda: But I think that's super generalized and I think Millennials do get it. There is something to be said also about just experience, like life experience and maybe they don't get it the way you get it, but they do get it and they're coming from a different perspective, but that's not a bad thing.

They just are seeing it through a different lens than you are and there's value in that still. 

Marissa Gratz: Oh, also, which you can add onto this now. I feel like nineties style, nineties things, all that stuff is coming back and they're all these new little teenybopper influencers are wearing the mom jeans or they have tamagotchis and they're playing Animal Farm or they're whatever, playing games that used to be like outta style and now it's back and it's no, we were like the original.

We love this stuff. We love Polly Pocket. We love eating the clothes. Delicious is Pac-Man back yet? I'm sure, but I know that , all of that, nineties style nineties music and stuff is all making a resurgence and we knew about this before. This is what we grew up with.

We loved it and like we're happy that you're experiencing it, but we're the OGs, so come talk to us if you wanna learn about the nineties, early two thousands, like that's where everything was. I think Chef's Kiss, so they don't understand that that was our time.

So we definitely know about the style and everything and we have that already. We don't need to buy it. That's right. We can help you with that. Yeah. The Hollister like vintage drop. Oh yeah. Hollister came back with a vintage, what was it, two thousands or something. It's supposed. 

Rachel Bagda: To be like early two thousands closed.

They opened the vault or whatever and it's. All the clothes like we wore to middle school, all the long, thin T-shirts with the big logo, it always comes back, yeah, it does. Every, the baggy jeans, the platform sneakers. Yeah. Like it's all back.

Katherine Jeffery: Now I noticed you both have middle parts. Where does that put you in terms of Zillennial Gen Z? But 

Rachel Bagda: I will say like when I started college, in sororities you have this thing called a composite, and it's basically like your yearbook photo for the sorority. Then they put it on this huge frame and it hangs up in the sorority house.

We used to go back, you have all of them in the house. So we can see like the very first one all the way up to the most recent. And we would look one by one and we would say oh my gosh, the hairstyles were so crazy back then, blah, blah, blah. And then when we started college, the aggressive side part was still a thing.

Like that middle part did not exist. We were aggressive side partying and straight hair, like pinned straight hair was what you did. Yeah. And so I remember standing there and being like, the way we talk about the. Photos from the girls way back when with the big hair. One day the girls are gonna be standing in the house looking at us and saying, why is all of their hair parted down by their ear and it's all pinned straight?

Why are they all doing that? Because now it's the middle part in a big bouncy blowout. I feel like it's like the look. Yeah. 

Marissa Gratz: I never associated a middle part with Gen Z. So it's interesting that you say that. That's like a generational thing. I always, and my friends, joke that all throughout growing up I had a side part with a side pony, so I double side too.

It was very cute, so cutie. But when I partied my hair in the middle is when you like grow up to be an adult. That's oh yeah. As a kid. And then when you're ready to transition into being an adult, you do the middle part more serious. 

Rachel Bagda: I do think I started middle parting senior year of college when I was like getting ready to enter the world.

So Interesting. But I don't think the young girls do side parts anymore. I don't. Side parts are so out. 

Katherine Jeffery: I know. So do, I look really old 'cause I have this side part. No.

Rachel Bagda: It looks like in the middle. We were side parting, I know this is, oh God, a podcast people can't see us.

But like it was, oh yeah, 

Marissa Gratz: it doesn't even do it anymore. It used to, but like this is the side part, right? Like the team, it wasn't even apart.

Katherine Jeffery: Yeah. So mine's more towards the middle than that is. 

Marissa Gratz: Yes, it's acceptable.

Rachel Bagda: In the clear. 

Katherine Jeffery: I'll have to try the direct middle sometime and, see how that works. 

Rachel Bagda: But I also feel like, in a way, I guess it is younger because I'm thinking of like my mom's friends and I don't think they middle part. I think they side part. 

Marissa Gratz: Interesting. I never thought of it like that before.

Check it out, we'll never know. It's like those things that you don't realize are generational little shifts. Yeah. In hairstyles and makeup. Makeup a hundred percent. Oh yeah. That's, we can't get into that. We don't have time. Part two. 

Katherine Jeffery: Yeah, part two. We'll have to have you both on again, you guys are so much fun.

So much fun. And really every compliment I've given you is so sincere and you're both highly emotionally intelligent. You're articulate, you're excited about life, right? You're excited to learn and grow and help others do the same. And I think that's coming through all of your responses. So thank you both for sharing your experiences, and I think it's clear that you are both doing that so well, and Orangetheory is lucky to have you. You've shown us that being a Zillennial isn't about being caught in the middle.

It's actually about being able to understand and connect with two different worlds.

Rachel Bagda: This was so fun. When you reached out to us, we were so excited and we've been telling everybody we know about this. We really appreciate you inviting us on and we can't wait to listen.

Katherine Jeffery: For me, the big takeaway today is bridging generations doesn't require choosing sides, but it's about using your perspective to build connection. 

If you enjoyed today's conversation, share this episode with a friend or coworker who might see themselves in the Zillennial experience or wants to just understand it better. Until next time, I'm Katherine Jeffrey, and this is GenShift.